RDQ (Real Dumb Question)

[Aldemar]

I'm about to ad .38/.357 to the calibers I reload. I have not reloaded revolver cartridges as of yet.

Now for the RDQ....Is there a reason you cannot load .38 to .357 velocities? It seems that there is plenty of room in the .38 brass for additional powder. Also, the revolver I would be shooting them in is a .357 - not a .38 only.

Is it just for safety in a .38 only gun or are there other factors involved such as the strength of the .38 brass or the longer jump from the cylinder to the barrel with the shorter .38 cartridge?

I realize I would need to mark them someway to show that they are not safe for .38's.

[wtkaiser]

It's a question of SAAMI specs. The 38 special is loaded to a max pressure of something le 14000 psi, maybe 17000 for the +p. That's what the ammo is good for, that's what the gun is good for. If you exceed SAAMI, you risk getting burned. The .357 takes the same bullet but ups the pressure to something like 35,000 psi (don't quote me on these numbers). You can see how much more strain the brass would have to take to accept these loads. The .357 is stressed for it, the .38 is not. You would have a gun capable of shooting the higher loads, but not the brass. It would quite possible come apart while firiing.

In view of the ease with which .357 brass can be obtained, it would be a truly questionable stunt to try.

[Sky_DiveR]

Yes on both counts.

That's the reason for the extra length... so you don't load a 357mag round in a firearm only made to handle 38 special pressures.

Even tho I have loaded 38 Spec brass to magnum velocities and shot them in magnum revolvers, I figured the damage to the chambers from using cartridge casings short for the cylinder will damage it in the long haul. Luckily I didn't have a mishap, either.

[-hanko]

I'm about to ad .38/.357 to the calibers I reload. I have not reloaded revolver cartridges as of yet.

Now for the RDQ....Is there a reason you cannot load .38 to .357 velocities? It seems that there is plenty of room in the .38 brass for additional powder. Also, the revolver I would be shooting them in is a .357 - not a .38 only.

Is it just for safety in a .38 only gun or are there other factors involved such as the strength of the .38 brass or the longer jump from the cylinder to the barrel with the shorter .38 cartridge?

I realize I would need to mark them someway to show that they are not safe for .38's.

An excellent rule to start with is NOT to exceed SAAMI specs...they're there for very good reasons.

sounds like you've not been reloading very long.

eta...The best starter guide I've seen is called The ABC's of Reloading...it may be out of print but I'd start with the local library.

hth

-hanko

[Don Edmondson]

There are no dumb questions. this is how you learn. Don

[shooterbill]

In my experience, 38 brass is thin and isn't as strong as some of the other calibers. 44 mag and 45 LC come to mind. I would think brass life would be reduced if loaded to higher pressures.

[bandook]

Just go get 500-1K 357 mag brass from starline. Its not like you have to chase after at the range when shot from a revolver.

Using the correct powder, (Eg w231) you should be able to load it down to powder puff loads.

[huckberry668]

38spl brass and guns are not build to 357mag pressure specs. That's why the differences. You can load 38 loads in 357 cases but shouldn't do the reverse.

For target shooting or plinking I don't see 357Mag velocities needed. Except for hunting or competition where I needed to knock over heavy targets or long distances I load 38spl loads in or in-between loads in 357mag cases. There is much less wear and tear on 357mag cases than the same load in 38spl cases too.

A couple tip bits to share. I used to shoot 30k 38/357 rounds a year for a few years. I found 38spl loads in my 357mag cylinders don't shoot as accurately (out to 50 yards) as the same load in 357mag cases. And shooting 38spl brass in 357mag cylinders extensively cause reliability problems when loading 357mag cases due to more fouling in the chambers if you don't clean them often.

My Bianchi comp load was Zero 125JHP in front of 5.3gr W231/HP38 Fed 100 medium taper crimp (to save case mouth) in 357mag cases. Muzzle velocity at around 1050fps if I remember correctly. 2" groups at 50 yards out of a 686 built with a Kreiger .355" bore barrel.

[Fishslayer]

Not a dumb question.

Just go online & find .357 brass. You can download the longer cases to .38 levels for target plinking and avoid the dreaded carbon ring in the chambers.

EDIT: Somebody mentioned, and is correct, that you will be wanting to use a faster powder for those downlaods than what you use for full house Big Dogs.

[Aldemar]

Yes on both counts.

That's the reason for the extra length... so you don't load a 357mag round in a firearm only made to handle 38 special pressures.

Even tho I have loaded 38 Spec brass to magnum velocities and shot them in magnum revolvers, I figured the damage to the chambers from using cartridge casings short for the cylinder will damage it in the long haul. Luckily I didn't have a mishap, either.

thanks skydiver.....I figured this was the case. I never would shoot a magnum load in a .38 revolver.

I've got both .38 & .357 brass already. Again, the only revolver I have so far is a .357. To me, it doesn't make sense to purchase one that only shoots .38, but that's just me.

I've loaded many thousand .45ACP & 9mm without any issues so far<knocking on wood>. I was planning on staying with Bullseye and Titegroup which is what I have been using so far. If anyone has a pet load for these powders, I would appreciate hearing about them.

edit - Huckberry - sounds like good advice on the cases - thanks.

[XDRoX]

[Cowboy T]

Actually, I was using .38 Special +P cases for .357M loads during the Great Ammo Crunch of 2009, when you couldn't hardly find .357M brass to save your life. However, you could find .38 Specials, including +P headstamps. So, that's what I did. To keep this hot load segregated, I used three methods:

1.) different type--color and shape--of box,
2.) different type of cast boolit, i. e. the soft .38's got Lee's 358-105-SWC, and the hot ones got the 358-158-RF, and
3.) .38 Spl +P headstamps. I started doing this after acquiring enough +P-headstamped cases. Before then, I'd run a red marker over the case heads.

If any one of these three was not in place, I would know there was something wrong and to pull the bullets. Because I used proper care--which we as reloaders are supposed to be doing anyway--that never did happen. No problems.

BTW, the caution about keeping such load for .357 Magnum firearms only, already stated by others, should be already obvious, but it cannot be re-stated enough. DO NOT use such hot loads in anything other than .357M-rated firearms!

Elmer Keith was the first to use .38 Special cases for what became known as the ".38-44 HV" load. This is the original 0.357" magnum load, and it was loaded to Elmer's original spec of 45,000 CUP. I just recently acquired an old case with that headstamp; yes, it really does exist.

Even if the .357M cases are "built beefier" than .38 Special cases, you still then must consider the metallurgy. The brass in those cases has been tested to withstand over 80,000 PSI, far beyond the SAAMI max of 35,000 PSI--or even Elmer's original 45,000 CUP--that you'll see even in a full-house .357M load. Yes, I'm referring to .38 Special brass. .357 Magnum brass is the same stuff, just lengthened. Your case neck will start splitting long before anything else happens.

So, as long as you use proper care, there's no reason why you cannot use .38 Special cases for Magnum-style loads. Just keep them segregated properly.

Now, that said, in general, I do think it's a good idea to get some .357M cases for the hot loads. Now that I've acquired sufficient .357M brass, this is exactly what I do.

- T

[Cowboy T]

Even tho I have loaded 38 Spec brass to magnum velocities and shot them in magnum revolvers, I figured the damage to the chambers from using cartridge casings short for the cylinder will damage it in the long haul. Luckily I didn't have a mishap, either.

Actually, it won't hurt the chambers at all. The only thing that will happen over time is a ring of carbon, and regular cleaning of the firearm like we're all supposed to be doing anyway will prevent that from happening. I shoot .38 Specials in my .357M Security-Six all the time.

thanks skydiver.....I figured this was the case. I never would shoot a magnum load in a .38 revolver.

I've got both .38 & .357 brass already. Again, the only revolver I have so far is a .357. To me, it doesn't make sense to purchase one that only shoots .38, but that's just me.

I've loaded many thousand .45ACP & 9mm without any issues so far<knocking on wood>. I was planning on staying with Bullseye and Titegroup which is what I have been using so far. If anyone has a pet load for these powders, I would appreciate hearing about them.

edit - Huckberry - sounds like good advice on the cases - thanks.

Bullseye and Titegroup, in that order, are my preferred powders for .38 Special loads. My preferred load is a 105gr cast boolit, speciifically Lee's 358-105-SWC, on top of 3.9 to 4.2gr of Bullseye. This load chronos at about 850 fps and is a wonderful practice load.

The concern is understood. However, it's also important to remember that millions--maybe billions by now--of .38 Specials have been loaded up with Bullseye for target-practice loads over the years. It really is a terrific powder for this cartridge. It's also an absolute dream for "+P+" .38 Spl loads of about 22,000 PSI. Haven't tried Trail Boss yet, but I've heard it's the bee's knees with cast bullets.

Like XDRoX, for the stout .357M loads, I call for 2400. Yes, I know, "H110/W296 is better", but 2400 is just so versatile and works so well for that I've stuck with it. It works very well.

[Bill Steele]

I think it is a really bad idea to load 357 like levels in a 38 case, regardless how you mark it. How many times have you found a live round laying on the ground at a range? Sane people don't shoot these rounds. But let's say you drop one and someone less sane than you finds it, loads it up into their priceless antique great grandfather's 38spl service revolver and turns it into junk. Many would say the person shooting an unknown round gets what they deserve, but in the end it all could have been avoided by using the right length case.

While I agree with XDroX's sentiment regarding really fast/dense powders in really big cases (it is really easy to miss a double charge). I also agree with T's sentiment on how well Bullseye works in these calibers. If you are going to use a fast/dense powder, you better have your loading process locked down solid.

For me I have entered and will never leave the chruch of Starline. You see, I have it all over the Radical Islamist's as I can get 1000 virgins delivered to my door and don't have to blow myself up to get them. Nothing compares to loading that first cycle on virgin Starline brass, give it a try and you won't ever be screwing around loading 357 loads in tired old 38spl brass again.

[Sunday]

It is easier to load 38 special to 38 loads and 357 mag loads for 357 mags cases. In the early 70s I used to load some pretty hot 38 special loads which were right out of the Hornady loading manual of the day. From my experience there is little to gain shooting hot 38 special loads, other than more recoil and short brass life. 2 months ago I gave away to a friend all the 357 loads I have as the 357 has too much recoil for pleasant shooting plus I do not hunt with a pistol.