Newbie needs help reloading with crimp

[Sleighter]

Ok reloading veterans, I've come across a few issues I can't resolve on my own. I'm reloading .223 with 62 grain armscor bullets w/ cannelure on a Hornady LnL AP press.

I've adjusted my bullet seating die to the correct depth but cannot get the crimp right. The bullet is seated to the cannelure and is loose as a fish in your hands. So I tightened down the body of the die to increase crimp. I adjusted slowly to an acceptable crimp with minimum wiggle of the bullet in the brass.

My issue is that every 4 or 5 rounds I'm smashing the shoulder. Some of the rounds are still loose and some are smashed. What is causing the variation and how do I solve it? Help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[XDRoX]

There's no need to crimp for an AR, but if you want to you can.

The problem isn't your crimp, but your sizing. You're not sizing the case enough. A properly sized case will have enough neck tension to hold a bullet without any crimp at all.

A couple options. First lower your sizing die. Lower it as far as it'll go without binding the press. That will probably fix your problems. If not you may want to try a small base die.

[gunboat]

First - I am not familiar with the hornady set up but with standard dies I would be looking at the expanding operation -
Perhaps your expanding button is too large or going too deep into the case and the flare step is becoming the inside diameter of case.
When seating, the bullet should be about 1 thou larger than the inside neck diameter - a press fit if you will -
Crushing case means too much crimp or perhaps the cases are not trimmed to same length.
If it is possible with your setup you might try seating then crimping as a separate operation.
my tuppence

[foesgth]

One other option is to use a Lee factory crimp die. I find that I get better crimps on my pistol rounds using them. I use them on some rifle rounds. For 7.62x54r I use one to crimp .310 7.62x39 bullets in low recoil loads for kids to shoot my MN rifles.

[XDRoX]

First - I am not familiar with the hornady set up but with standard dies I would be looking at the expanding operation -
Perhaps your expanding button is too large or going too deep into the case and the flare step is becoming the inside diameter of case.
When seating, the bullet should be about 1 thou larger than the inside neck diameter - a press fit if you will -
Crushing case means too much crimp or perhaps the cases are not trimmed to same length.
If it is possible with your setup you might try seating then crimping as a separate operation.
my tuppence

He's loading rifle. There's no expanding operation. And you must seat and crimp in separate steps. It's not like loading pistol.

One other option is to use a Lee factory crimp die. I find that I get better crimps on my pistol rounds using them. I use them on some rifle rounds. For 7.62x54r I use one to crimp .310 7.62x39 bullets in low recoil loads for kids to shoot my MN rifles.

The LFCD for pistol is completely different than the rifle one. They don't work or do the same thing. The pistol FCD post sizes a round after it's assembled. The rifle one works just like any other rifle crimping die by any other manufacturer.

If the OP's bullets are loose in a sized case, his problem is in the sizing process. He shouldn't try to fix with with more crimp. Remember most competition shooters do not crimp AR rounds.

[ireload]

Slighter you mentioned that every 4th to 5th round you are experiencing that problem. Are you trimming your brass all in the same lenght? In consistent brass length can cause that problem. You also mentioned that the bulles are loose after you have seated them. As others have stated that your sizing die is not adjusted correctly. Follow the manufacturer's instruction. Also check the bullet diameter to make sure that it is .224" and not .223" or smaller.

[Bill Steele]

If the OP's bullets are loose in a sized case, his problem is in the sizing process. He shouldn't try to fix with with more crimp. Remember most competition shooters do not crimp AR rounds.

I agree, the problem is not enough neck tension. Screw the sizing die down until you get enough neck tension.

If you are going to crimp with the seat die and want to avoid the crushed case, trim so all your cases are the same length, preferably the length you set your crimp up for...

[GeoffLinder]

Agreed on in-sufficeint neck tension coupled with improper crimping. If die is reducing neck diameter properly (die properly adjusted) and expander ball is popping neck out to the correct interference fit then neck tension alone will provide a no slop, tight bullet fit no matter where the cannelure sits.

Your expander ball should be just about .222" diameter and with the bullet being .2235 to .224" diameter this will provide an interference fit difference of about .0015 to .002"

If your bullet is loose in neck after seating, something above is wrong.

1st, try NOT crimping at all. If bullet is still loose, then the above sizing specs are off.

2nd, if bullet fit is tight with no crimping, stop crimping

3rd, DO NOT use seating die to apply a roll type crimp with rifle cartridges at the same time as seating is done. Use a separate die station with a dedicated taper crimp die if you must crimp at all.

Hope this helps

[gunboat]

Xd -- I understood he was loading rifle -
I also said I was not familiar with hornady thingy -
I take it Honady setup only sizes a case to proper inside neck diameter without sizing ?? -- does this also bell the case mouth -
However, every set of dies I have for both rifle and pistol has an expanding button in it whether 2, 3, or 4 die sets -
The point being -- that however his dies work the inside neck diameter is too large for the bullet - hence it being loose before crimp.

No, you do not HAVE to crimp in a separate operation, it is just best that you do. A LIGHT crimp can be applied quite successfully at the same time the bullet is seated.

[Horton Fenty]

If die is reducing neck diameter properly (die properly adjusted) and expander ball is popping neck out to the correct interference fit then neck tension alone will provide a no slop, tight bullet fit no matter where the cannelure sits.

This.

[GeoffLinder]

Xd -- I understood he was loading rifle -
I also said I was not familiar with hornady thingy -
I take it Honady setup only sizes a case to proper inside neck diameter without sizing ?? -- does this also bell the case mouth -
However, every set of dies I have for both rifle and pistol has an expanding button in it whether 2, 3, or 4 die sets -
The point being -- that however his dies work the inside neck diameter is too large for the bullet - hence it being loose before crimp.

No, you do not HAVE to crimp in a separate operation, it is just best that you do. A LIGHT crimp can be applied quite successfully at the same time the bullet is seated.

Totally disagreed on crimping for bottle-neck rifle cartridges. Any crimp applied while seating die is still moving bullet down will ALWAYS either, scrape bullet jacket, buckle neck or both. Even if it can't be seen, trust me, it is happening and has an effect downrange.

Commercial rifle cartridge reloaders use separate crimp stations. Why, because it is the right way to do this.

BTW, you do not bell bottle-neck rifle cases. It is good to chamfer inside edge especially if seating flat base bullets.



OP, measure ID of sized case mouth BEFORE seating a bullet and see if it is right around .222" If so, sizing is good and issue is in seating.

[gunboat]

crimp while seating -- done for years and years with cast bullets into a crimp groove -- I agree and said it was not the best way -
Yes you do flare bottle neck case when loading cast bullets -
Don't want to start a pissing contest but there are more ways than one to skin a cat --
In solving op problem -- it just simply that his inside neck diameter is too large, no matter how it is done -

[XDRoX]

I did not know companies made a seating/crimping die for rifle. I thought that was only for pistol.

Who makes a seat/crimp die for rifle?

[GeoffLinder]

I did not know companies made a seating/crimping die for rifle. I thought that was only for pistol.

Who makes a seat/crimp die for rifle?

You can do so with a number of rifle seating dies, you just don't want to.

[GeoffLinder]

crimp while seating -- done for years and years with cast bullets into a crimp groove -- I agree and said it was not the best way -
Yes you do flare bottle neck case when loading cast bullets -
Don't want to start a pissing contest but there are more ways than one to skin a cat --
In solving op problem -- it just simply that his inside neck diameter is too large, no matter how it is done -

OP and rest of thread is discussing jacketed bullets in bottleneck rifle cartridges. If you were referring to cast bullets in rifle calibers in the first post, then there ya' go, just didn't see that mentioned.

Agreed on the cat thing, just remember that not all the ways available produce the best pelt