Neck resizing or Full resizing?

[BLR81]

Just ordered my first single stage press, and I'm still gathering information. From what I can tell, I only need to neck size the 7mm-08 brass that I've saved from shooting my Browning BLR over the last 6 months. It's the only 7mm that I own and the ammo will only be used in this rifle.

Are there any reasons that I should use a full sizing die on this brass? And, which die should I use on new brass? Thanks

[gunboat]

BLR is an auto right? Likely it will require full length sizing -- Even bolts or single shots eventually need to be full length sized - varies with cartridge, some stretch more than others --
You can always back your FL die off a turn or so to accomplish neck sizing with it.
If your new brass fits your chamber you can just neck size it. -
my tuppence-

[GeoffLinder]

Bolt action: neck size only just fine as long as cases were previously fired in same rifle AND are at trim to length.

Semi-Auto: always full length resize. Use a gauge to verify that you are setting the shoulder back just enuff for that chamber and you will get best case life. L.E. Wilson makes a great gauge for this.

http://www.lewilson.com/casegage.html

Measure fired case and then set size die to get 1.5 to 2 thousandths of shoulder setback on sized case compared to fired/unsized case.

[Diabolus]

Bolt action: neck size only just fine as long as cases were previously fired in same rifle AND are at or trim to length.

Semi-Auto: always full length resize. Use a gauge to verify that you are setting the shoulder back just enuff for that chamber and you will get best case life. L.E. Wilson makes a great gauge for this.

http://www.lewilson.com/casegage.html

Measure fired case and then set size die to get 1.5 to 2 thousandths of shoulder setback on sized case compared to fired/unsized case.

If shooting bench rest I don't see any problem with neck sizing, but if in a tactical shooting competition I would full-size so I don't encounter any stuck cases.

I agree 100% on semi-auto.

[shooterbill]

With your lever gun, neck sizing will give you more problems than benefits. A lever gun doesn't have as much leverage in the bolt and lever as a bolt rifle. You can still adjust your dies to size your brass minimally by turning your dies in less than the maximum amount that the die manufacturer recommends.

[CS Sports]

You will want to use a FL sizer with a lever gun, but that doesn't mean you have to jam it all the way down to the shell holder. If you set the FL die up properly to size only the amount you need, you get the best of both both FL and neck sizing.

I've personally never found much benefit to neck sizing only, as there is typically more runout because the shoulder of the case is not supported during resizing.

[FLIGHT762]

It would be prudent to F/L size with a lever action Rifle. I have a BLR in .358 Winchester and F/L my cases every time. I do neck size no more than 4 times and then F/L size in my target bolt guns only. This comes with many years of hard learned lessons with cases that were neck only sized too many times.

Autoloaders,pumps and lever guns should always be F/L sized. Levers,pumps and autos do not have the strong camming action that a bolt action rifle has if you get a case stuck. I've had to beat open a bolt handle more than once with neck only sized cases.

Get a Hornady or Sinclair (preferred) shoulder bump gauge. Take measurements using a digital caliper from your fired cases and set your F/L sizing die up to bump the shoulder of your fired 7-08 cases .002"-.003". Your brass will last a long time resized properly. No need to neck only size.

[Diabolus]

It would be prudent to F/L size with a lever action Rifle. I have a BLR in .358 Winchester and F/L my cases every time. I do neck size no more than 4 times and then F/L size in my target bolt guns only. This comes with many years of hard learned lessons with cases that were neck only sized too many times.

Autoloaders,pumps and lever guns should always be F/L sized. Levers,pumps and autos do not have the strong camming action that a bolt action rifle has if you get a case stuck. I've had to beat open a bolt handle more than once with neck only sized cases.

Get a Hornady or Sinclair (preferred) shoulder bump gauge. Take measurements using a digital caliper from your fired cases and set your F/L sizing die up to bump the shoulder of your fired 7-08 cases .002"-.003". Your brass will last a long time resized properly. No need to neck only size.

+1 for the Sinclair, top of the line.

[BLR81]

It would be prudent to F/L size with a lever action Rifle. I have a BLR in .358 Winchester and F/L my cases every time. I do neck size no more than 4 times and then F/L size in my target bolt guns only. This comes with many years of hard learned lessons with cases that were neck only sized too many times.

Autoloaders,pumps and lever guns should always be F/L sized. Levers,pumps and autos do not have the strong camming action that a bolt action rifle has if you get a case stuck. I've had to beat open a bolt handle more than once with neck only sized cases.

Get a Hornady or Sinclair (preferred) shoulder bump gauge. Take measurements using a digital caliper from your fired cases and set your F/L sizing die up to bump the shoulder of your fired 7-08 cases .002"-.003". Your brass will last a long time resized properly. No need to neck only size.

Thanks for the advice on F/L sizing lever action rifles. As for the shoulder bump guage, well I spent the majority of the afternoon on Sinclair's web page and searching the web, trying to figure out what adjusting the sizing die to the gauge measurement minus .003" does. And, I'm no closer to understanding now.

I guess that I don't understand what backing off .003" means. Is the sizer making the brass longer or shorter. I get that the distance from the shoulder to the head needs to be correct so there is the correct head space. And, I believe the cases get longer after firing. So, when you back off the die your what, shortening the brass? The video on Sinclair's site showed how but not why.

On a side note recently, I shot 3 different brands of 140 grain ammo. I shot a tight group with Remington and Federal, but when I shot Hornady SST the case was so tight I practically couldn't get the lever to move. I tried the Remington and it ejected fine so a tried the Hornady's again with the same results. Had to brace the rifle between my left hand and knee, and pull will a lot of force with my right. I got so worried I stopped shooting the SST.

When I got home the only thing I could find different about the Hornady's was that the cases were between 7-10 mm longer than the other two brands. At the time I didn't know about checking the head to shoulder spacing, but even if I did I don't have any tools to measure it.

I still don't know why but I'd guess the extra length caused to bullet to hit the rifling too soon and built up too much pressure. The Hornady rounds shot about 2-3 inches higher than the others from 100 yds. Maybe some one could explain this to me also.

My press is set to arrive on Tues hopefully the info included will clear some of this up. I know I'm not going to rush into anything until I do know.
Thanks again

[FLIGHT762]

When we say say bumping the shoulder, we're referring to the amount of F/L sizing or pushing back the shoulder of a fired case.

Here's a couple of references, one is a video, the other is from Sniper's Hide explaining bumping the shoulder with some photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_l-bYxbg0

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1696162#Post1696162

When you measure the amount of shoulder bump you're resizing your cases, if you bump back the shoulder .003", the resized brass will easily chamber and when it is fired, it will only expand the shoulder(headspace) only a small amount. If you don't use some kind of headspace/bump gauge, you do not know how much you're reducing the brass when F/L resizing.

Cartridge overall length or the length of the fired brass at the case mouth has nothing to do with headspace. Headspace is measured on the shoulder datum line on bottlenecked rifle cartridges.

Lots of information on the web regarding shoulder bump in F/L resizing.

Many reloaders just follow the instructions from the die manufacturers recommendation of setting up the F/L sizing die of turning the die in the press, touch the shell holder then turn the die in another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. There's more to it than that.

A good quote from another reloader "Reloading without mics, guages and chrono's is like flying without nav gear. You spend a good portion of the time not knowing where you are."

[GeoffLinder]

Thanks for the advice on F/L sizing lever action rifles. As for the shoulder bump guage, well I spent the majority of the afternoon on Sinclair's web page and searching the web, trying to figure out what adjusting the sizing die to the gauge measurement minus .003" does. And, I'm no closer to understanding now.

I guess that I don't understand what backing off .003" means. Is the sizer making the brass longer or shorter. I get that the distance from the shoulder to the head needs to be correct so there is the correct head space. And, I believe the cases get longer after firing. So, when you back off the die your what, shortening the brass? The video on Sinclair's site showed how but not why.

On a side note recently, I shot 3 different brands of 140 grain ammo. I shot a tight group with Remington and Federal, but when I shot Hornady SST the case was so tight I practically couldn't get the lever to move. I tried the Remington and it ejected fine so a tried the Hornady's again with the same results. Had to brace the rifle between my left hand and knee, and pull will a lot of force with my right. I got so worried I stopped shooting the SST.

When I got home the only thing I could find different about the Hornady's was that the cases were between 7-10 mm longer than the other two brands. At the time I didn't know about checking the head to shoulder spacing, but even if I did I don't have any tools to measure it.

I still don't know why but I'd guess the extra length caused to bullet to hit the rifling too soon and built up too much pressure. The Hornady rounds shot about 2-3 inches higher than the others from 100 yds. Maybe some one could explain this to me also.

My press is set to arrive on Tues hopefully the info included will clear some of this up. I know I'm not going to rush into anything until I do know.
Thanks again

Flight762 beat me to the punch but I included some additional detail info.

OK, here's the deelio on this. This is what "headspace" is all about in a rifle. A cartridge has a specific measurement from case head to a point on the shoulder called the datum line. When the bolt is closed on a properly sized case there is a small amount of space left from breech face/case head to chamber shoulder and the case won't have it's shoulder crushed against the chamber's shoulder. This space is what headspace is. When you fire a case, the firing pin strike slams the case forward until the shoulder is tight against the chamber shoulder, when gas pressure builds the case expands against the chamber walls first and stays forward against the chamber. As pressure peaks the case head stretches back so that the case head contacts the breech face. The case is now pretty much exactly the diameter of the chamber and has increased in length so it is as long as the space from chamber shoulder to breech face. After pressure drops a bit the brass springs back just slightly and allows the case to be extracted.

When you reload the case you now need to bump the case shoulder back about the same amount it was stretched or the case won't easily chamber next time. This and cleaning up the case head mouth size is pretty much what resizing is all about.

A headspace case gauge measures a fired (but un-resized) case from shoulder to case head. After seeing where the case head is on a fired but un-resized case is you drop a sized case into the case gauge and take a measurement to see if your sizing die has pushed the case shoulder back far enuff so that it is shorter than the un-resized case from case head to datum line. Keep adjusting size die until you get the case length from shoulder to head back to where it needs to be.

For bolt rifles I bump shoulder 1.5-2 thousandths. For semi-autos I bump the shoulder 2-3 thousandths. Much more than 3 thousandths and case life will be shortened due to increased stretching on firing.

The L.E. Wilson gauge I linked to earlier is a very easy and cheap way to take this measurement. Many folks don't bother with this and just screw their size die in all the way. It usually works BUT without proper measurement you have no idea what your headspace clearance is.

Hope this helps.

Here is the link again.

http://www.lewilson.com/casegage.html

[BLR81]

When we say say bumping the shoulder, we're referring to the amount of F/L sizing or pushing back the shoulder of a fired case.

Here's a couple of references, one is a video, the other is from Sniper's Hide explaining bumping the shoulder with some photos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_l-bYxbg0

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1696162#Post1696162

When you measure the amount of shoulder bump you're resizing your cases, if you bump back the shoulder .003", the resized brass will easily chamber and when it is fired, it will only expand the shoulder(headspace) only a small amount. If you don't use some kind of headspace/bump gauge, you do not know how much you're reducing the brass when F/L resizing.

Cartridge overall length or the length of the fired brass at the case mouth has nothing to do with headspace. Headspace is measured on the shoulder datum line on bottlenecked rifle cartridges.

Lots of information on the web regarding shoulder bump in F/L resizing.

Many reloaders just follow the instructions from the die manufacturers recommendation of setting up the F/L sizing die of turning the die in the press, touch the shell holder then turn the die in another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. There's more to it than that.

A good quote from another reloader "Reloading without mics, guages and chrono's is like flying without nav gear. You spend a good portion of the time not knowing where you are."

That was one of the video's I watched at the Sinclair sight, I just couldn't tell if he was backing off the sizing die to start checking and then continuing to backoff or screw back down to get the final adjustment he was looking for. The other link was real helpful and cleared up a lot of things. Thanks

[BLR81]

Flight762 beat me to the punch but I included some additional detail info.

OK, here's the deelio on this. This is what "headspace" is all about in a rifle. A cartridge has a specific measurement from case head to a point on the shoulder called the datum line. When the bolt is closed on a properly sized case there is a small amount of space left from breech face/case head to chamber shoulder and the case won't have it's shoulder crushed against the chamber's shoulder. This space is what headspace is. When you fire a case, the firing pin strike slams the case forward until the shoulder is tight against the chamber shoulder, when gas pressure builds the case expands against the chamber walls first and stays forward against the chamber. As pressure peaks the case head stretches back so that the case head contacts the breech face. The case is now pretty much exactly the diameter of the chamber and has increased in length so it is as long as the space from chamber shoulder to breech face. After pressure drops a bit the brass springs back just slightly and allows the case to be extracted.

When you reload the case you now need to bump the case shoulder back about the same amount it was stretched or the case won't easily chamber next time. This and cleaning up the case head mouth size is pretty much what resizing is all about.

A headspace case gauge measures a fired (but un-resized) case from shoulder to case head. After seeing where the case head is on a fired but un-resized case is you drop a sized case into the case gauge and take a measurement to see if your sizing die has pushed the case shoulder back far enuff so that it is shorter than the un-resized case from case head to datum line. Keep adjusting size die until you get the case length from shoulder to head back to where it needs to be.

For bolt rifles I bump shoulder 1.5-2 thousandths. For semi-autos I bump the shoulder 2-3 thousandths. Much more than 3 thousandths and case life will be shortened due to increased stretching on firing.

The L.E. Wilson gauge I linked to earlier is a very easy and cheap way to take this measurement. Many folks don't bother with this and just screw their size die in all the way. It usually works BUT without proper measurement you have no idea what your headspace clearance is.

Hope this helps.

Here is the link again.

http://www.lewilson.com/casegage.html

Thanks for taking the time to lay that all out for me. Between your explaination the the links I got from Flight762, I think I've finally got it all straightened out.

Now my biggest problem is whether to get the Wilson gauge you recommended or the Sinclair that Flight 762 recommended. But, I think I can handle this, I'll just get both. Thanks again

[kmullins]

In my opinion, regardless of the rifle, full-length sizing is always the ticket. The key is to size just enough. If you set up your die like the manufacturer recommends you will end up oversizing your brass. This means when the cartridge is fired and brass expands, it will have more room to expand and when it is sized it will be sized more. This equals more work hardening and shorter brass life.

Get a shoulder bump gauge from Sinclair's and either feeler gauges, a shim kit or a set of Redding Competition shellholders and start with the least amount of sizing possible. With the firing pin out of the bolt, chamber the sized round. You want just a touch of resistance. I usually bump the shoulder back .001"-.002" for my bolt actions.

This will give you excellent brass life and reliable chambering. Also, in a discipline such as benchrest where you want as little disruption as possible, the ease of chambering will be very beneficial.