Am I over crimping my 45 ACP?

[blockfort]

I just bought a used SA Loaded, but it's in good shape and all stock.

I am loading 45 using found brass, 200gn plated X-Treme SWC, and Clays.

My press is a Lee Challenger with the Lee three die set (no FCD).

I loaded about 200 rounds with no crimp whatsoever (not even with the bullet seating die), and brought them out to the range for the first time. Almost all of them had failure to feed; they seemed to be doing a 3-point bind. A 1911 expert looked at everything and told me that I need to crimp my rounds. When he took the barrel out and dropped a round in, it wouldn't go all the way in unless he pushed it in. He suggested I do a taper crimp, but I thought I could first try with my bullet seating die and see what I get.

With no crimp, the edge of the brass measures 0.472 (measured within 2mm from the edge of the brass).

After crimping, edge of brass measures 0.465. There are very slight scuff marks from the die up to 0.057 from the edge of the brass. After these scuff marks, the diameter of the brass is 0.470. In the middle of the case, the minimum diameter is about 0.467 and then flares out again near the base.

So, is this ok?
Should I back off the die a bit?
Should I get a Lee FCD?
Should I get a taper crimp die?
Is a taper crimp die the same as a FCD?

[lpspinner]

First you do not really need to apply a crimp if your case is resized correctly. My sure the resizing die positioned correctly so.

.465 is too much. With a Lee FCD or a Dillon Taper Crimp die (I use this now) I crimp to .470.

Also you didn't mention what your OAL is.

[XDRoX]

You don't need a FCD. It and the die you have both apply a taper crimp.
Crimping isn't nessasary with 45acp. But completely removing the bell that you created is required with a crimp die. Or in your case a seat/crimp die.

You could post a close up picture of your round. We could tell you what we think.

With plated bullets you have another option. Crimp a round. Then pull the bullet. If you dented the bullet then you crimped too much. Slightly back off until you don't get the dent.

[Southpaw45]

I crimp my loads ever so slightly with a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die just enough to take the bell out of the case. Im crimping to .471 and no more. Basically Im just ironing it out with the FCD that takes out any bulges in the case thats over spec and applies a "slight" taper crimp. Careful with that Clays powder. Clays works good and burns clean in the .45ACP but room for error is small. To have an under charged or over charged load is only like a half grain apart with that powder. Happy loading!!!

[blockfort]

My OAL is 1.225 as per Hodgdon data.

lpspinner, without a crimp, it seems like the flared edge of the brass is making the round get stuck while feeding. Shouldn't I remove that flare? Also, why would you tell me I don't need to crimp if you crimp your rounds? Why do you do it?

Southpaw45, if you get 0.471 after crimping, what is the dimension before you crimp? And I'm not worried about the error, my rounds are weighing out +/- 0.1 gn, but are usually right on my desired charge.

[Southpaw45]

I never recorded the info on a round before I applied the taper crimp but Im measuring a piece of brass right now after belling and it measures .474. Looks like Im only taking off 3 thousands when crimping. FYI most of my .45 loads Im using 230grn Bear Creek cast lead bullets. I tend to bell a little more when using lead bullets than FMJ...

[blockfort]

There were some hand loaded rounds for sale at the competition yesterday. The 1911 expert showed me those and they seemed more even crimped than I'm doing now. The edge of the brass was almost rounded off to the point were you couldn't feel the edge. Those bullets (and my newly crimped ones) seem to feed into my gun and barrel quite well, so I'm pretty sure my feeding problem is due to my non-crimped rounds. I just don't know if I'm overdoing it or if there's anything that can go wrong by "overdoing it".

[XDRoX]

There were some hand loaded rounds for sale at the competition yesterday. The 1911 expert showed me those and they seemed more even crimped than I'm doing now. The edge of the brass was almost rounded off to the point were you couldn't feel the edge. Those bullets (and my newly crimped ones) seem to feed into my gun and barrel quite well, so I'm pretty sure my feeding problem is due to my non-crimped rounds. I just don't know if I'm overdoing it or if there's anything that can go wrong by "overdoing it".

If you're denting or breaking the plating on your plated bullets accuracy could suffer. Those rounds you are describing have too much crimp.

[lpspinner]

My OAL is 1.225 as per Hodgdon data.

lpspinner, without a crimp, it seems like the flared edge of the brass is making the round get stuck while feeding. Shouldn't I remove that flare? Also, why would you tell me I don't need to crimp if you crimp your rounds? Why do you do it?

Southpaw45, if you get 0.471 after crimping, what is the dimension before you crimp? And I'm not worried about the error, my rounds are weighing out +/- 0.1 gn, but are usually right on my desired charge.

I mentioned that you don't need to crimp. Just remove the flare. I crimp to the minimum (imo) of .470 because I sometimes I may flare just a little bit too much. Now for some people it's not noticable, but for someone like me who's anal/ocd about everything. I perceive it whether real or not and the Taper Crimp Die is just my peace of mind.

For example with rifle brass. I don't crimp cause I don't flare. The only exception is if the bullet has a cannelure.

[lpspinner]

...... The edge of the brass was almost rounded off to the point were you couldn't feel the edge. ........ I just don't know if I'm overdoing it or if there's anything that can go wrong by "overdoing it".

On a 45ACP round, the cartridge headspaces off the case mouth. If the edge is "rolled in" too much, it could go further into the chamber and that would cause even more issues.

[blockfort]

Is there a way to test the crimp about other than measuring the diameter? Something with how it fits or sounds in my chamber?

[AJD]

Just remove the bell or flare. That's it. You don't need to measure. In fact unless you're measuring with a micrometer, you're not going to get real accurate results for diameter with a caliper. Not only can overcrimping a cartridge that headspaces on the casemouth cause the issues lpspinner discusses above, it can and more than likely will deform those plated bullets. I've NEVER had an issue with a round failing to feed from setting the crimp die just enough to remove any bell or flare.

[lpspinner]

Yes, some people use a case gage. The two tightest ones are from Dillon and EGW.

However, the best case gage is your barrel. Pull the barrel out and test how it drops in. It should fit flush with the top edge of the barrel/chamber.

[Southpaw45]

Yes there is. Remove the barrel from your pistol. Assemble a round without crimping it and drop it into your camber. Check to see if it drops in easy without the edge of the brass or any bulges hanging up it the chamber. If it does, apply a "slight" crimp and try it again. You can tell you got it right when it falls in freely and the back on the cartridge fits flat with the back on the barrel. It does make a distinct solid click when that round falls in freely and contact is made from the rim of the cartridge and the rim on the chamber. Compare your reload with a factory round the same way.

[Southpaw45]

Woops! Spinner typed faster than me and took my thunder!