Factory crimp die ?

[BACKTOSHOOTING]

Need to find out about the factory tapper crip die verses standard Seat and crimp die, Are there any differance between the two ? I am set up with the lee pro 1000 kit in 9mm and 45acp with standard factory carbide seat & crimp dies and dont understand the differance between them and the Factory tapper dies, Will the tapper die give a more consistant length of the case and do i really need to do this extra step ?

[skibuff]

I've been loading 9mm for 15 years with my RCBS seater die for crimping. You barley need any crimp and the 9mm.

I think it's a gimmick Lee came up with. Does anyone else even sell a crimp only die?

[Bill Steele]

Need to find out about the factory tapper crip die verses standard Seat and crimp die, Are there any differance between the two ? I am set up with the lee pro 1000 kit in 9mm and 45acp with standard factory carbide seat & crimp dies and dont understand the differance between them and the Factory tapper dies, Will the tapper die give a more consistant length of the case and do i really need to do this extra step ?

The Pro 1000 has three holes, so it is a moot point in your case. The seat and crimp is done at the last station. The crimp portion that is on the seater die, when adjusted properly will do all the taper crimp you will need on those calibers.

The factory crimp die is a separate crimp die. To use this die you will need a fourth hole on your press and you adjust the seating die so the crimp on it doesn't put a crimp on, just seats the bullet. Then in a separate step the crimp die puts the taper crimp on the round. The LFCD (for handgun calibers) has some features that are usually not on other separate crimp dies. It has a knob to adjust how much crimp you want. It also has a carbide ring at the mouth of the die that will size the whole round that is too fat, down to SAAMI specifications. This sizning ring "feature" is one of great debate, some love it, some hate it intensely. In any case, with the Pro1000, you won't be needing the LFCD.

[Bill Steele]

I've been loading 9mm for 15 years with my RCBS seater die for crimping. You barley need any crimp and the 9mm.

I think it's a gimmick Lee came up with. Does anyone else even sell a crimp only die?

Redding and Dillon both make separate crimp dies for handgun calibers. I greatly prefer to use a separate crimp die, much easier to setup and change when I want to make an adjustment. The downside is you need enough stations on a progressive or if loading on a single stage it is an extra step, one most will be unwilling to do.

For rifle, the Lee FCD is the best. It is a completely different design than the handgun caliber die. Many people don't crimp their rifle rounds, for those that do, the Lee FCD is very nice.

[morrow]

DO NOT use the Lee FCD (LFCD) for anything. It's a scam and it deforms bullets. I'll repeat, it deforms the bullet by crushing it. No other companies make those because they're junk. The reason why they're somewhat popular is people that make bad ammo, usually in the form of poor neck tension, need them.

As far as 'crimping' your 9mm and 45acp, a separate or combo seat/crimp die will do just fine. For 9mm and 45acp it headspaces off the case mouth, so you just want to remove the bell from the case, that's all.

If you want to crimp your rifle rounds only do so on bullets with a cannelure. I like taper crimp dies for my rifle rounds because it works the brass less than a roll crimp die, and is more forgiving on case length variance.

[Fjold]

I use the factory crimp die as a means of uniforming the neck tension on a couple of cartridges that I reload because those particular guns respond to it. The factory crimp die is adjustable for how much crimp it applies so you can use it without "deforming" the bullets. I also use it for crimping my 375 H&H magnum to set the crimp in my 375 H&H (in the relief groove of the Barnes TSX bullets) to keep from having to worry about bullet setback under the recoil.

I've only been reloading for 31 years though so it's just a newby's opinions.

[mjmagee67]

DO NOT use the Lee FCD (LFCD) for anything. It's a scam and it deforms bullets. I'll repeat, it deforms the bullet by crushing it. No other companies make those because they're junk. The reason why they're somewhat popular is people that make bad ammo, usually in the form of poor neck tension, need them.

As far as 'crimping' your 9mm and 45acp, a separate or combo seat/crimp die will do just fine. For 9mm and 45acp it headspaces off the case mouth, so you just want to remove the bell from the case, that's all.

If you want to crimp your rifle rounds only do so on bullets with a cannelure. I like taper crimp dies for my rifle rounds because it works the brass less than a roll crimp die, and is more forgiving on case length variance.

Maybe your not using it right! I have used the FCD on 10's of thousands of rounds never had a issue with deformed bullets, yea I guess if you completely jack up the set up you will deform the bullet. But the wonderful thing about it is you can precisely adjust the level of crimp to fit you needs. I use it on all my pistol and rifle rounds. I even use it on bullets without cannelures, spent a day at the range testing and it made no difference in accuracy, no loss no gain. I have read plenty of others who found a similar thing, but those with chrono's say the crimped rounds gain 25-50fps. So now I just do it to make sure the bullet stays where it is. Another place the FCD has really helped is with one of my 1911 with a really tight "match barrel", I kept having feeding issues, so I worked with the FCD and got the crimp just right and the feeding issues are thing of the past, and the accuracy is great. It took a lot more crimp than I normally give a pistol round!

With all thing in life YMMV. Do your own testing.

[3006mv]

Explain how the Lee FCD deforms bullets.

It is a post sizing die and does not touch the bullets; have you noticed the carbide sizing ring in the bottom?

Now if you are loading lead bullets you may have an issue.

[morrow]

Explain how the Lee FCD deforms bullets.

It is a post sizing die and do not touch the bullets; have you noticed the carbide sizing ring in the bottom?

Now if you are loading lead bullets you may have an issue.

There's lots of info on this all over reloading forums. A quick search will post the results. Other companies don't make them for a reason. They are far inferior to roll or taper crimping because they work the brass more and deform or 'swage' the bullets.

People that "can't tell" that they deform the bullets don't have the shooting equipment or skill to tell the difference a deformed bullet has on a correctly crimped bullet.

Even if you don't see any deformation after using it and inertia pulling the bullet, a quick check with some calipers will show the swaging/deforming.

Here's the first pic I found doing a search. DO your own quick research and you will find much, much more:

[mjmagee67]

Looks like over crimping. You give some people a cannonball and a Q-tip and they will break the cannonball with the Q-tip. The FCD is a tool, and as with all tools you have to learn how to use them. Thanks for the example on how not to use the FCD.

[CalTeacher]

Factory crimp dies are largely unnecessary for handgun rounds. If you need it for your ammo to fit in your chamber then your sizing die isn't adjusted properly. The LFCD can undersized cast bullets, which can be detrimental to accuracy.

[Chief-7700]

Reason why to use the LFCD is that your dies are not adjusted right.

[GeoffLinder]

IMHO, the FCD's are a solution for a problem in your reloading process that you don't want to, or know how to fix the proper way.

They have their place, but that place is not in my reloading room!

[bandook]

FCD haters just don't know how to use it.

Sure, you can seat and crimp at the same time, but I'd like someone to explain how crimping AFTER seating is worse than crimping while the bullet is still in the process of being seated.

Yes, I've buckled cases with the Lee FCD. This will happen if you seat+crimp and then try to do a second round of crimping using the FCD.

So either Seat+crimp in a single step or seat and crimp in different steps - just don't try to do both as that is when things can go haywire.

The only time I can see the FCD causing problems is if you are using oversized cast boolits as the sizer ring may cause a larger boolit to be swaged down.

[f4tweet]

I use a Lee FCD for my 357 Sig. It helps hold the bullet with no deformity and keep the bullet tight so there is no setback. +1