Trouble shooting question

[1911whore]

I am reloading for my 6.5 Creedmoor and the powder charges are precise and I am literally using tweezers to load granule by granule to get right to my specific charge weight, my OAL is .020 off the lands and they are all spot on with less than .001 deviation.

I am using hornady 120 ELDm , Berger hybrid right 140, and SMK 142. H4350 powder, all new hornady brass and federal GMM primers

the issue is that my extreme spreads are between 40-70 and the rifle will shoot two damn near in the same hole but the third rd flies about 3/4 in out.

would this most likely be a seating depth issue needing more or less distance off the lands? Why would I get the velocity swings with all powder from the same jug

kinda scratching my head over here

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

Following this one Dave as I get the same issue with 223. 2 in the whole then a flyer.

[ar15barrels]

Do you have a fluorescent light over your digital scale?
Run your charges across 2 different scales to see if they are actually matching.

Is this a lightweight hunting barrel?
Are the 3rd round flyers always going exactly the same direction away from the first 2 rounds?
Shoot some 10 round groups instead of just 3 rounds and see what happens with rounds 4 thru 10.
If the flyers continue to draw a line away from the first 2, that is a barrel problem.
If rounds 4-10 go back and forth between the 1&2 location and the 3rd round locations to make a 2nd group, that is called 2-grouping and is a gun assembly problem.

[1911whore]

Do you have a fluorescent light over your digital scale?
Run your charges across 2 different scales to see if they are actually matching.

Is this a lightweight hunting barrel?
Are the 3rd round flyers always going exactly the same direction away from the first 2 rounds?
Shoot some 10 round groups instead of just 3 rounds and see what happens with rounds 4 thru 10.
If the flyers continue to draw a line away from the first 2, that is a barrel problem.
If rounds 4-10 go back and forth between the 1&2 location and the 3rd round locations to make a 2nd group, that is called 2-grouping and is a gun assembly problem.

I will check these and see what’s going on.

[Tahoeshooter]

You have 2 issues there. One is the velocity spread and the second is the "flier".

Addressing the spread-Things to check.
I'm assuming your charges are consistent. (My charges are =/- .05gr I've found that 4 kernels of H4350 is .1gr My spreads are well under 20, single digit SDs.)

Have you done an incremental charge test and that's the best you can get? It doesn't sound like you're on a stable charge node. If you hit a stable charge plateau, it's surprising what changes you can make and get the same results in terms of accuracy / consistency at 100 yards. I have a combo that shows the same accuracy at 100, but with Lapua cases + small rifle primers vs Hornady cases and GMMs. The Hornady / GMM is .1 gr slower, so adding .1 gr gives same velocity buy SD is not as good with Hornady in any case (no pun intended).

If that's the best any charge gets you, then consider neck tension. A .289 bushing die should work great with that brass. Are the bullets seating with the same resistance? These are new cases so you shouldn't have to anneal them.


Many factors can cause a flier. At 100 yards the velocity spread won't make a difference in the point of impact unless it is a sensitive barrel harmonic node. If you are only shooting short ranges like that, don't worry too much about the velocity spread. It's more likely bullet seating depth, barrel heating up, or something else. We all chase this issue sooner or later. Do you have another rifle with which all bullets go into the same hole at the same distance?