Having crimp issues with .45

[skyscraper]

(This is on a dillon 650xl)

I have successfully reloaded a lot of bear creek .45 acp 230 grain bullets(round nose), but now I have picked up some X-treme bullets that are copper plated 200 grain. I went to adjust my dies and am having issues with seating and crimping. When I seat the bullets, they first were easy to push down into the case. THen I adjusted the powder die to less of a bell and it seemed to work, but now Im having issues adjusting the crimp die because the bullets rotate after seating and crimping (Im assuming because there is no cannelure?)

It was way easier to adjust the dies for the lead bear creek bullets...these copper plated are not as easy. Anybody know what Im doing wrong, or how I need to approach it differently? Thanks!

[watersports500]

Go back to the very beginning. Start at Depriming and then go to your next station, and check that. So on and so on.
From what your saying, you have more then issue.

Good lock

[skyscraper]

I will try that. For some reason I thought I could get away with just adjusting one or two dies, but I'm probably just cutting corners by doing that

[Bill Steele]

If the bullet will turn in the case after it is seated, you have something wrong (probably not telling you anything you didn't know here).

Either the sizing die is not sizing the case down to have proper neck tenson (less likely) or you have the wrong sized bullets (for .45ACP they should measure .451-.452" in diameter). Set the sizing die so the mouth just clears the shell plate when the ram is all the way up. Check the bullet diameter with calipers, maybe you got some .44 bullets by mistake (they will measure .429").

The belling should just be enough to allow the bullet to be seated without shaving the bullet.

Set the crimp die so the OD at the case mouth is .469-.470" after crimp is done.

Good luck.

[CalTeacher]

Too much crimp. Back out your crimping die because you are are causing the walls of the case to buckle kind of like when you step on an aliminum can. If you pull the bullets from these rounds, the bullets will likely have a groove around the shank where you crimpedthe brass into the bullet.

[stand125]

Did you order the .452 or the .451 bullets?

[skyscraper]

I checked the box and they are .45
My calipers read .451

[XDRoX]

I checked the box and they are .45
My calipers read .451

They should be .452. That could be part of the problem but sometimes it's hard to get an accurate measurement.

IME your problem is caused by one of three things.
1. Bad brass that doesn't resize like it should.
2. Problem with resizing die, either not screwed down far enough or out of spec.
3. Undersized bullets.

If you can find other bullets you can rule out #3.
Chances are the die is within spec.
If you can try a bunch of different brands of brass, chances are it's not the brass.

[XDRoX]

Also I can't believe I'm about to suggest this, as I am currently the president of the LFCD haters club, but if you have a LFCD it will probably fix your problem.

[Taildraggerdave]

I always thought plated and jacketed were .451
and lead was .452

Take care,
Dave

[mls204]

Also I can't believe I'm about to suggest this, as I am currently the president of the LFCD haters club, but if you have a LFCD it will probably fix your problem.

LOL. It's a sad but true story, get a lee factory crimp die and seat/crimp in separate stations. That should fix all your problems.

Also wanted to suggest lubing your cases. Makes everything so much easier.

[Fieldofview]

XDROX's suggestion was right on. The Lee Factory Crimp Die for 45 ACP is truly unlike other crimps on the market.
Really terrific. And inexpensive.

[filric48]

Lyman book reads the lead should be .451 I cast my own .452 and resize to .451.

[Bill Steele]

I checked the box and they are .45
My calipers read .451

.451" is fine, so you ruled out bullets as the problem.

If the sizing die is screwed down so it just clears the shellplate (i.e. sizing the brass properly), then it could be the brass.

Some of the headstamps (brands) with the thinnest brass walls will fail to size enough to hold a .451" bullet with some sizing dies. Brands like R-P and TZZ have very thin brass. If your sizing die is on the looser side you can have neck tension issues. If your sizer is a Dillon sizing die, it should be sizing even the thinnest brass enough to get proper neck tension.

You need to determine if the brass/sizing die combo is doing its job (i.e. making the brass small enough to provide neck tension on the bullet). The crimp doesn't put any further tension to hold a bullet on a .45ACP round, in fact, the crimp (depending on how much you are doing) actually reduces neck tension in most cases

To address one of your first questions, a cannelure is used on a caliber that employs a roll crimp. .45ACP is a taper crimp, which is basically taking the belling out of the case. In .45ACP a little additional crimp can help in feeding rounds with bullet profile like SWC's, but you never want to go below .469" dimension at the case mouth after the crimp is applied.

[CalTeacher]

Cast bullets should be .452, jacketed should be .451. Mine cast at exactly .452 and my barrel slugs at .450, and they shoot great.

Anyhoo, I can't stress this enough. I've had the exact same situation you're experiencing. I was crimping waaayyyy too much because I switched presses and my dies were off. Because I crimped too heavily, it caused the walls of the brass to buckle just below the mouth, thus eliminating any neck tension that holds the bullet snugly in place. It caused the bullets to rotate around in the case, and even caused a few setbacks upon feeding. I backed off on the crimp die and solved the problem. Please check this because it is a very easy fix.