A mild rant against loadbooks

[wtkaiser]

I am a bit peeved that LOADBOOKS doesn't give you the publishing date in their website. I am all for keeping modern manuals, and the same for modern LOADBOOKS, but without that date I hold off, as I don't want to get one that I already have.
There - done. See? That wasn't so bad....

[Black_Talon]

I'm with you bro! I seem to remember contacting them (via phone or email, IIRC) to find out what is the most recent date for the manual I was thinking of buying, so that I could make sure I didn't already have it.

[tankerman]

Most companies that produce manuals do it to make money.

If you're looking for free data, go to the powder manufacturers websites.

[Clownpuncher]

If you're looking for free data, go to the powder manufacturers websites.

Which most take from manuals. Alliant data is exact out of my speer manual and they only list speer bullets. The only advantage to having the speer manual is if you use other than Alliant powders.

[wtkaiser]

I enjoy reading manuals, sometimes, particularly the Speer ones. It's just too bad I couldn't apply that same enthusiasm to my school books in days gone by!

Is it that manuals take from the powder companies, or vice-versa? I believe Alliant and Speer are both under the ATK umbrella, so of course they will use the information, but which came first? (Don't get all existential/philosophical on me about this)

[lpspinner]

I also buy the yearly Magazine/Manual from Hodgon.

[tankerman]

I enjoy reading manuals, sometimes, particularly the Speer ones. It's just too bad I couldn't apply that same enthusiasm to my school books in days gone by!

Is it that manuals take from the powder companies, or vice-versa? I believe Alliant and Speer are both under the ATK umbrella, so of course they will use the information, but which came first? (Don't get all existential/philosophical on me about this)

I like reading manuals too,
When I start working up a load, I pull out all my manuals and download data from the manufacturers website, then lay it all out in front of me and start comparing data. It's amazing how different the data usually is; starting charge, max charge, pressure, velocity etc...

[HKMadness]

I like reading manuals too,
When I start working up a load, I pull out all my manuals and download data from the manufacturers website, then lay it all out in front of me and start comparing data. It's amazing how different the data usually is; starting charge, max charge, pressure, velocity etc...

That really peeved me at first too. Now I just either start with the lower one or depending on the difference, somewhere in between, then work up. Depending on how familiar I am with a powder though, I may start a couple tenths of a grain higher.

[wtkaiser]

Except for one bullet many years ago, a 180 grainer that I wanted to drive as fast as I could, I never try for top end loads any more. I don't bother finding out exactly how fast I can drive a bullet from my guns. I find it's hard on them, maybe hard on my shoulder or my hands, and I don't shoot them the best. With a .44 magnum in handguns and a .30-06, a .356 and a .44 in rifles, I have enough to take anything I may want to and yet still have fun at the bench. So I probably won't be buying any more loadbooks, unless they throw in that Leverevolution powder and it does something to the .356. But I have already asked Hornady to re-shoot the loads and they haven't as of the last I looked. And that new MP-300 powder is on the scene now....damn, here I am changing my mind already!

[bruceflinch]

I hear ya! Couple weeks ago, big103 was over. We were looking at 3 different loadbooks for 303British. All 3 books overlapped on the minimum & maximum charges. What was max in one was middle of the road & close to starting in the other 2 respectively. Sheesh!

[sargenv]

With all the variables, there really is no "one manual is best" since everything is so different. You may have one firearm with a loose chamber that shoots X powder with Y velocity, and the exact same load in a different firearm with a tight chamber might actually be overpressure and shoot a lot faster.

The Data that you read are guidelines for the most part. It is what they reccomend according to the firearm or pressure testing chamber they use and it might not neccesarily be the maximum in your gun. It's not an exact science and the only way to know what works is to work up the load in your gun and use a chronograph to see if what the book tells you is true or if you get better or worse performance.

I've had max loads in certain guns with primers as flat as a pancake and other max loads that barely sealed the case. There are too many variables to say that "This is absolutely the MAX load period".

If you read most of the manuals from the bullet makers, they tell you what length, brass, primer, bullet weight, size of bullet, etc that they got X results with. For years I've worked up my own loads using bullet manuals with different kinds of bullets with the same weights and came up with satisfactory loads.

Part of this is science, but part of it is art and developing a method that YOU do things to come up with specific results. I've been surprised more than a few times that something I thought would be great turned out to be crap, and some things that I thought would be crap, proved to be exceptional. It's all trial and error. If you don't like to tinker, you may just want to stick to factory ammo.

[bruceflinch]

^ Hey! Stop trying to calm the rant w/ your common sense talk!


OK you got a good point...

[wtkaiser]

Geez, fellers, I've gotten more response over this one mild point than I have all the rest of my input put together. You all raise valid points. Of course, since they're not mine, they're wrong, but....