First 45 ACP reload failed

[rd2play]

After reloading successfully about 500 38 Specials I finally got my 45 Lee die set. I want to reload for my Sig 1911. So far I shot about 500 rounds of Fiocchi 230 gn FMJ for the break in period. Every single one of them went through fine. For reloading I reuse those Fiocchi cases. My bullets are from Laser cast, 45 CAL 230g RN .452.

I set up the die set and did a first round, without primer and powder. It looked good, but it wouldn't cycle well. Sometime it would get stuck and I had to take apart the 1911 in order to remove it. I crimped and crimped, eventually probably over-crimping, thinking that maybe the edge of the case was sticking out too much due to not enough crimping. Even then it would get stuck once in a while.

The only difference between my round and Fiocchi is OAL, 1.208 for mine and 1.252 Fiocchi. Could this be the cause of the problem? If yes, I don't know if I can crimp somewhere else. I crimped right where the wider base ends.

This is a picture of the round. I see it's scratched, probably from all the crimping.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Don Edmondson]

Don't roll crimp 45acp use a taper crimp might be hard to do with a lee loader read the book and see what it says Don

[rd2play]

I believe that the Lee 45 die set will automatically taper crimp. I started with a light crimp; what you see in the picture is after crimping increasingly harder in the hope that it will make a difference. It didn't. Neither light or heavy crimp cycled well.

[SpaceMan]

Make sure you're not over belling the case and have a high spot befor the crimp. Use a case guage to make sure it's the proper size.

[Munk]

Overcrimping on a straight wall semi-auto can be HORRIBLE. The case headspaces off of the case mouth, which means, if you have a case mouth that's been crammed into a bullet via roll or taper crimping, it won't chamber properly, and if your gun has a sloppy throat, you might actually get the case slightly farther in than you should.

Shorter OAL can cause issues with feeding.

Your gun may also just not like the RN bullets you chose... it seems odd, but some guns are just odd like that.

[stand125]

You want to just remove the belling of the case. Try it with no crimp and see if it cycles. Laser cast bullets are a little oversized and will have plenty of tension to stay in the case. You need a little case rim to prevent it from entering to far.

[rd2play]

As I said, I overcrimped only after I tried a very, very light crimp, which didn't work. I don't think I over belled either, since the bullet was hardly able to sit on top of the case.

Tomorrow morning I'll try again with even less belling and lighter crimp (or no crimp). I just hope I haven't wasted 60 bucks

[Bill Steele]

Loading lead in .45 ACP is a little more delicate than loading most other calibers and for sure more delicate than loading .451 jacketed for your .45 ACP.

In your picture you clearly over crimped, you can see the case went into the lands, which is obviously not good.

Fiocchi brass is some of the thickest (case wall dim), so when you use it to load lead, which is usually sized to .452 or larger, you can run out of room pretty quickly in a tight chamber. All three Sigs 1911's I have owned have come with tight chambers, so the exact combo you are loading is a challenge (BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE).

Tomorrow, seat the bullet so where the bearing surface part of the bullet ends, sits even with the case mouth. Crimp the case so the OD of the case at the case mouth is between .469"-.471". This combination should yield a round that will cycle and chamber well in your SIG 1911's.

When loading lead for your SIG'S, R-P (Remington) brass will make the whole job easiest. Other nice thin brass is Starline and TZZ. Winchester is middle of the road and again easier to load for your gun, but not as thin as R-P or Starline. As I said, Fiocchi is some of the thickest brass so it makes getting the total dimension just a tad bit more ticklish.

When doing your chamber checks (when you are setting your dies up), take the barrel out of the gun and drop the round into the barrel. The round should drop down with a "ka-thunk" and the round should sit flush or just below the top edge of the barrel, where the breech face meets the barrel on top.

Don't get frustrated, you will get it soon and fully understand how to make quality lead ammo for your SIG.

Good luck, have fun.

[puRe59]

In addition to the previous comments, try working a longer OAL. I've loaded mine to 1.26" and recently tried 1.23". I haven't tried anything shorter yet

[SpaceMan]

Another thing to check is your case length, make sure their in spec and not too long. If their too long give them a trim and I bet that would help alot. If their in spec or a little shorter then you can eliminate that possibility.

[rd2play]

Thanks for the very informative answer. I bought those bullets thinking they were plated. I don't know why I thought that... lapse of judgement... Anyway, now I hope I can learn something.

Tomorrow, seat the bullet so where the bearing surface part of the bullet ends, sits even with the case mouth. Crimp the case so the OD of the case at the case mouth is between .469"-.471". This combination should yield a round that will cycle and chamber well in your SIG 1911's.

I'm trying to understand "seat the bullet so where the bearing surface part of the bullet ends, sits even with the case mouth". The bullet has a "thicker" base. Is that the "bearing surface"? Do you mean to seat the bullet so that the case mouth is aligned with the top of the thick base?

If yes, that's what I did with that bullet. After that I crimped lightly... but it didn't work.

When doing your chamber checks (when you are setting your dies up), take the barrel out of the gun and drop the round into the barrel. The round should drop down with a "ka-thunk" and the round should sit flush or just below the top edge of the barrel, where the breech face meets the barrel on top.

I read about this technique, but I'm not sure what to look for when dropping the round. I read your explanation but I'm still not getting it The barrel is not perfectly flat at the "back end", right, it has that extra... extension, don't know how to call it. How should the bullet look like when it's in there? Thank you.


I don't know how to get a longer OAL. The bullet has that thicker base, and getting a longer OAL would mean to crimp somewhere on that wide base instead of right on the edge of it. Would that be OK?

[Fishslayer]

That is WAAAY overcrimped!




Your roll crimp is going in too far and jamming in the chamber throat. It is supposed to headspace off the case mouth. No roll crimps for .45ACP!

You need to first back out your seating die until the die just removes the flare from the charging/expanding die. Look closely for any shaved lead. If there are lead slivers around the case mouth back the seating die out an eighth turn or so. Check again with another round. The flare should be removed but no lead shaving.
THEN set the bullet seating depth.

Back off the adjuster on the LFCD. Run the round up into the die. Turn the adjuster down until it stops on the round. Lower the round out of the die.
Turn the adjuster down 1/2 turn.
Run the round back up.
Measure the case OD just below the case mouth and then AT the case mouth. The two measurements should be the same, around .470-.471. You may have to twiddle the adjuster. Lee calls 1 full turn "heavy" crimp.

You should have a nice square case mouth. Now try the plunk test. Should be GTG.

[Bill Steele]

Thanks for the very informative answer. I bought those bullets thinking they were plated. I don't know why I thought that... lapse of judgement... Anyway, now I hope I can learn something.

Once you get the hang of the perfect seat and crimp, you will love shooting lead. It is also easier on the bore.

I'm trying to understand "seat the bullet so where the bearing surface part of the bullet ends, sits even with the case mouth". The bullet has a "thicker" base. Is that the "bearing surface"? Do you mean to seat the bullet so that the case mouth is aligned with the top of the thick base?

If yes, that's what I did with that bullet. After that I crimped lightly... but it didn't work.

Seating the bullet like you first did, where the bearing surface ends so that part is even with the case mouth is a great starting point. After seating at that depth, just set the crimp die to where the case looks like the belling was taken out and the OD dimension is in the .469-.471" range, right at the case mouth edge.

When you start at this point you are assured the wider bearing part is not going to jam into the lands and cause your round not to be able to headspace on the case mouth (that is what the "ka-thunk" is all about, it tells you the round is falling into the chamber and stopping when the square case mouth contacts the ledge inside the chamber.

I read about this technique, but I'm not sure what to look for when dropping the round. I read your explanation but I'm still not getting it The barrel is not perfectly flat at the "back end", right, it has that extra... extension, don't know how to call it. How should the bullet look like when it's in there? Thank you.

Yes, that extra extension on the top of the barrel is what the breech face comes up to when the gun goes into battery. Ideally the round when in the chamber will be flush with this surface or slightly below it. If your brass is short the round will sit down below it some.


I don't know how to get a longer OAL. The bullet has that thicker base, and getting a longer OAL would mean to crimp somewhere on that wide base instead of right on the edge of it. Would that be OK?

Start first like we discussed above with where the "wider part of the bullet" ends being flush with the case mouth. On some loads it may call out an OAL that forces you to seat the bullet longer (less deep), if you have such a recipe, just seat the bullet the way we discussed and back off the amount of powder by 10%. This will get you going and make you comfortable with the parameters, then you can experiment with longer OALs and the throat of your particular gun. Again, just screw the crimp die down to where the case looks like the fbelling was taken out and the OD dimension is in the .469-.471" range. The round will feed fine and chamber and you will be on the road.

When you get to shooting Lead SWC's this stuff will become even more important, but there is plenty of time to learn.

Again, don't get frustrated, just go slow like you have and you will do fine.

Have fun, good luck.

[rd2play]

OK, another round. It cycles well, no hiccups at all. The OD is a little over .472". I didn't want to go lower than that because it starts looking like a roll crimp, probably because the wide base of the bullet widened the case.

What I really don't like is that the case is scratched on the finished round. I'm afraid it will shorten the case life. Don't know why it happens, maybe the die is faulty...

Pictures here.

A few with the finished round, with the visible scratches. A few with the belled case, one with the bullet just sitting on the top of the belled case and one with the bullet seated (before crimping). Before crimping the OD is about .474" - .475".



EDIT: I didn't do the barrel test yet, and I like less and less the fat base of the bullet. It widens the case. Maybe it's just visual, I don't know.

[Bill Steele]

OK, another round. It cycles well, no hiccups at all. The OD is a little over .472". I didn't want to go lower than that because it starts looking like a roll crimp, probably because the wide base of the bullet widened the case.

What I really don't like is that the case is scratched on the finished round. I'm afraid it will shorten the case life. Don't know why it happens, maybe the die is faulty...

Pictures here.

A few with the finished round, with the visible scratches. A few with the belled case, one with the bullet just sitting on the top of the belled case and one with the bullet seated (before crimping). Before crimping the OD is about .474" - .475".



EDIT: I didn't do the barrel test yet, and I like less and less the fat base of the bullet. It widens the case. Maybe it's just visual, I don't know.

.472" is fine if the round chambers well.

You might try cleaning the die. You may have some brass shavings stuck up in there, held on by some bullet lube. Also, you might try using some case lube (something like Hornaday One Shot case lube, or Dillon case lube or just a little Anhydros Lanolin mixed 1:9 with 99% isopropyl alcohol).

Technically you don't need to use lube with carbide dies and straight walled pistol rounds, but it make things run smoother. The Fiocchi brass being thick, tends to run pretty rough through the Lee dies (which are not mirror finishes anyway), so cleaning them a little more frequently will help,. When you get some other brass, like Winchester, Remington, CBC, etc. things will run a little more smoothly.

The case looking bulged like that (wide bullet spreading the case), is a product of all the different dimensional buildups. Jacketed bullets will do the same to some degree, depending on the sizing dies (makes the brass smaller), the thickness of the brass you are using, the diameter of the bullet you are loading. The good news is it doesn't affect the quality of the round from a performance standpoint. If it really bothers you visually, either get some R-P brass, or get 4-5 sizing dies honed out to different dimensions and use the right die for the thickness of the brass you are loading (not recommended).

Have fun.