45/70 Loads

[zfields]

Hey all,

Just picked up a marlin 1895GBL guide gun. Curious to what people have been running with some success in the 400 grain hardcast, and 300-350 grain XTP loads. The old' lee guide doesn't have much info for this caliber, and in general I don't see as much information out there specific to lever actions, compared to the lower charges for trapdoor rifles


Thanks
Z

[Dark Mod]

If you want to be the guinea pig you could try that Hornday Leverevolution powder, Although i think it was more intended for .30-30. I dont know anyone who has tried it in .45/70, but im super curios about using it for my .30-30

Though rifle powders like Varget or IMR 4895 would probably be best

[WARDOG]

A good proven .45-70 load

I've used this load for many years.
It shoots accurate out of my Ruger No 1, Marlin XLR lever, and Pedersoli Kodiak Dbl Rifle

Remington Brass
Hornady Interlock 350 grains, LFN or LRN
Fed 210 primer
47.4 gr IMR 4198
Loaded with a crimp for use in all my guns and the tube mag's.
Velocity is 1930 - 2010 fps depending on barrel length.
My Ruger & Marlin will shoot around 1" at 100 yds with this recipe.
It has quite a kick, but it is not the hottest load.

Tremendous energy and flattens Black Bear and hogs within a few yards.

[zfields]

I've used this load for many years.
It shoots accurate out of my Ruger No 1, Marlin XLR lever, and Pedersoli Kodiak Dbl Rifle

Remington Brass
Hornady Interlock 350 grains, LFN or LRN
Fed 210 primer
47.4 gr IMR 4198
Loaded with a crimp for use in all my guns and the tube mag's.
Velocity is 1930 - 2010 fps depending on barrel length.
My Ruger & Marlin will shoot around 1" at 100 yds with this recipe.
It has quite a kick, but it is not the hottest load.

Tremendous energy and flattens Black Bear and hogs within a few yards.

Is it worth the extra few bucks go with 405 hardcast opposed to 350? Or a bit more velocity w/ lighter bullet more effective/ accurate?

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

[Bill Steele]

The only 45-70 I have loaded was for a friend's 18.5" barreled GBL. We used 2400 and some cast 405gr RNFP's. He wanted a light recoiling HD round that topped out at about 1000fps, definitely not a hunting load for dangerous game.

[Dark Mod]

Is it worth the extra few bucks go with 405 hardcast opposed to 350? Or a bit more velocity w/ lighter bullet more effective/ accurate?

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk

If i remember correctly the 405 bullets drop REALLY bad, so depending on how far out you want to reach it may make more sense to get some higher velocities and lighter bullets. The cartridge was designed around cast projectiles, but theres plenty of people with modern leverguns (read Marlin) who load Jacketed projectiles and get some real velocity out of them.

From Chuck Hawkes:

In an attempt to improve the low pressure .45-70 load, the factories have been loading a 300 grain JHP bullet (BC .171, SD .204) at around 1,810 fps. At that velocity, according to Remington figures, the ME is 2182 ft. lbs.

The trajectory of this load allows a scoped rifle to be sighted as follows: +3" at 82 yards, +2.7" at 100 yards, -3" at 162 yards, and -10.2" at 200 yards. This makes the 45-70 about a 162 yard rifle for use on deer size game.

[WARDOG]

Is it worth the extra few bucks go with 405 hardcast opposed to 350? Or a bit more velocity w/ lighter bullet more effective/ accurate?

I experimented with 405's because I had a buttload of 'em.
Couldn't get the accuracy, or accuracy at range of 150 yards. I tried many powders.
I have tried hard cast but don't really see the need for it in a rifle. Not a good trade off for cleaning. I stick to jacketed in rifles for less fouling, cleaning, etc.
I use Hardcast in some of my big-bore handguns to keep pressures down, and to get a heavy bullet moving (440 grn. out of a .500 JRH).
I ended up with 350 grain Hornady's for the .45-70. The 300's I could find were hollow points, which didn't make much sense for a slow moving bullet. The 350's were a good compromise, and surprisingly accurate at the velocities I stated earlier.
I have low power scopes on my #1 and XLR for hunting in timber, so 150 yards is maximum shooting range until things start to get in the line of site.
The 350 load is a hammer at 150 yards and less.

[zfields]

Thanks Wardog, Ill give them a try. Was thinking about sticking with a solid lead slug for pigs, and the 300 XTP for deer ( If I even bother, Texas deer are about the side of a Labrador ).

I dont plan on taking shots past 100 yards, 125-150 yard max would be ideal if I can keep the accuracy decent.

[chris]

i have a Sharps LRE in 45-70 and i cast my own bullets and load my own rounds. you can duplex the round with black powder and smokeless. it burns cleaner and the round goes a little faster.

i use .545 gr. creedmore bullet
6 gr. of IMR 3031
63 gr. of 1Fg Goex.

however i did buy the rifle to shoot smokeless bullets if i so choose to.
this is what i use in my Sharps.

[zfields]

i have a Sharps LRE in 45-70 and i cast my own bullets and load my own rounds. you can duplex the round with black powder and smokeless. it burns cleaner and the round goes a little faster.

i use .545 gr. creedmore bullet
6 gr. of IMR 3031
63 gr. of 1Fg Goex.

however i did buy the rifle to shoot smokeless bullets if i so choose to.
this is what i use in my Sharps.

Thanks Chris,

I have never messed with black powder, Ill check it out. In general, what are the advantages or disadvantages of it?

[qwikrick]

This page may help out a bit.
( check under 458 cal. )

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

some of my own 45/70 recipes. I also have a 18.5'' marlin .

300 gr JHP / 46grs IMR 3031 / CCI # 34
405 gr JSP / 42grs IMR 3031 / CCI # 34

405gr LFN / 14gr trail boss / CCI # 34

[bill_k_lopez]

Hey all,

Just picked up a marlin 1895GBL guide gun. Curious to what people have been running with some success in the 400 grain hardcast, and 300-350 grain XTP loads. The old' lee guide doesn't have much info for this caliber, and in general I don't see as much information out there specific to lever actions, compared to the lower charges for trapdoor rifles


Thanks
Z

Here is a copy of my Modern Reloading by Lee - Mine has quite a few options for lever 45-70. I own a marlin 1895 CB - I'm pretty new to reloading, well, very new to reloading - but I had been stocking up on 45-70 projectiles anticipating the purchase of my rifle (which I just shot for the first time two weeks ago after purchasing it in November last year).

If you'd like, I can more than gladly send you out 5 or 10 projectiles each of everything I've got. I have a a lot and don't mind sharing to give you the opportunity to try a few options. Forward me your address if you'd like me to send them out to you. I don't know off hand exactly what weight projectiles I have, but it should be everything between 300 and 500 grain in both cast & JSP.

[zfields]

Here is a copy of my Modern Reloading by Lee - Mine has quite a few options for lever 45-70. I own a marlin 1895 CB - I'm pretty new to reloading, well, very new to reloading - but I had been stocking up on 45-70 projectiles anticipating the purchase of my rifle (which I just shot for the first time two weeks ago after purchasing it in November last year).

If you'd like, I can more than gladly send you out 5 or 10 projectiles each of everything I've got. I have a a lot and don't mind sharing to give you the opportunity to try a few options. Forward me your address if you'd like me to send them out to you. I don't know off hand exactly what weight projectiles I have, but it should be everything between 300 and 500 grain in both cast & JSP.

Bill that would be awesome, Id gladly pay you for them.
I have the lee guide, and its only listing a few powders for each. Just trying to get some ideas what people are using.

PM inbound

[tankerman]

Lot of talk about velocity.

45/70 does not require a lot of velocity to get full penetration.

Leverguns are not long range guns. So flat shooting rounds are not needed.

For flat shooting and long range there are other much better calibers and rifles.


I'd be happy to compare penetration, I'll use my +500 grain hardcast traveling at around 1600fps. Bring jacketed bullets.

[tankerman]

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/modern4570.html

An interesting and informative article on the 45/70 by Randy Garret, an authority.

The high performance 45-70 is possibly the most reliable 200-yard heavy game caliber available. Although it must be considered an ancient caliber, the reasons for its capabilities are generally not well understood. This is primarily the result of a general misunderstanding of how best to load the caliber for maximum effectiveness against heavy and dangerous game. The rules that apply to the building of ammo for other calibers are commonly applied to the 45-70 and, consequently, tend to limit the caliber’s effectiveness.

It is extremely common for shooters to prefer relatively small calibers that produce high velocity and flat, long-range trajectory. This is evidenced by the overwhelming popularity of calibers such as the 30-06 Springfield, 7mm Magnum, and 300 Winchester Magnum. These calibers work with fairly small diameter bullets that require expansion in order to produce reasonably quick kills. Simply stated, the price paid for flat trajectory with modest recoil is bullet diameter insufficient to produce quick kills with non-expanding bullets.

By contrast, the 45-70 is not a long-range cartridge, but within its 200-yard range it offers some extremely significant advantages over all smaller diameter calibers. Primary among these is the 45-70’s ability to utilize extremely blunt non-expanding hard-cast bullets. This is the case for a couple of reasons. First, unlike the great majority of bolt-action rifles, the 45-70 lever-action rifle is configured so as to allow the reliable transit of blunt nose cartridges from the magazine to the chamber. By their nature, most bolt-action rifles will not reliably feed blunt bullets from the magazine to the chamber, and, consequently, require roundnose bullets, usually solids, whenever great penetration is required. This is a grave shortcoming, as roundnose solids are notorious for their lack of quick incapacitation. Second, owing to the substantial diameter of the 45-70, blunt non-expanding bullets produce wound channels entirely adequate to produce quick kills on big game. No expansion is required. This subject of adequate wound channel diameter is also influenced by the diameter of the frontal flat on the bullet (meplat). In fact, meplat diameter is more significant than bullet diameter with regards to the actual diameter of the penetration channel produced. In other words, the blunter the bullet the wider the wound channel. Due to the large diameter of the caliber and the lever-action rifle’s ability to reliably chamber very blunt nose cartridges, the 45-70 is capable of delivering nearly unparalleled impact effect against heavy game, with super deep bone-crushing penetration and quick incapacitation effect.

Owing to this ability, the 45-70 provides a degree of lethality not generally found with other calibers, even ones producing much greater power. This is best evidenced by comparisons with the mighty 458 Winchester Magnum. As conventionally loaded with 500-grain expanding bullets, the 458 is notorious for its relatively shallow penetration. Consequently, when really heavy game is hunted, it is quite common for roundnose solids to be used. Unfortunately, roundnose solids tend to be slow to incapacitate big game. By comparison, the 45-70 can be loaded with blunt non-expanding hard-cast bullets that produce much deeper penetration than the 458 with expanding bullets, and cut a much larger wound channel than the 458 with roundnose solids. Also, the speed of incapacitation is much faster with a blunt non-expanding bullet than with any roundnose solid. Simply stated, proper hard-cast bullets effectively split the difference between under-penetrative expanding bullets and the slow to incapacitate roundnose solids.

The only significant limitation of the 45-70 is the 200-yard trajectory. However, within that range, the 45-70 can anchor the heaviest game on the planet with brutal authority. It can shoot lengthwise through the heaviest game animal including buffalo with large caliber blunt bullets, giving the shooter the advantage of not having to pass on bad-angle shots. If the bull of a lifetime is headed straight away from the shooter and the seat of the pants shot is all that is offered, the shooter can take the shot and know that he will reach the vitals. Generally, when proper hard-cast bullets are used, lengthwise shots result in exit wounds. If confronted by a heavy coastal grizzly hell-bent on annihilation, the 45-70 lever-gun will reliably shoot lengthwise through the bear, while providing the quickest action type available, the lever-action, should a rapid follow-up shot be required. This exceptional combination of action speed and impact effect is impossible to beat when the skirmish is close, and the game is dangerous. And as it turns out, the caliber is also capable of outstanding accuracy, on the order of MOA. If I could own only one big game rifle, it would certainly be a 45-70 lever-gun.

- Randy Garret