375 H&H creampuff loading...update

[24Sailor]

OK so I loaded a little over 39 gr. SR 4759 behind a 220 gr. Hornady FP (per Hornady manual max being 42 gr.) took it out back to my range and let her fly mv 2150fps.....In a 9.5# rifle the recoil was barely noticeable (somewhere between a .223 and a light .243 load).

HERE'S MY QUESTION: Speer 235 gr. hot cores have a reduced recoil load instruction for their bullet at 30 gr. max of SR 4759 with a mv around 1700+fps? .....This doesn't make sense as both bullets can be loaded with full power charges behind them?

Thing is I have some of the Speer .235 bullets which with the right powder I can crank up to well over 2800 fps. How come I can't crank them up to near 2100 with SR 4759?

I had no pressure issues with the Hornady....Maybe Speer is lagging on load development? Personally I don't have all the fancy equipment to determine why I find this strange.

(UPDATE)

Haven't messed with the Speers yet as the lot i got weigh in at plus to minus 5 grains.

Did load and shoot a few Hornady 220's though....Personally in my rifle I don't see a boat load of difference in recoil.....actually those 220 grainers only lose about 1.5" at 100 yards downloaded with SR 4759 vs. cranking them up to 2800 with rifle powder......Shot Both and recoil was quite tolerable...Perceived not much more than an .06

[wtkaiser]

I would hazard a guess that there is more bearing surface on one than the other. It's not just weight of the bullet the determines pressure. It might be something you can't eyeball, either. We are talking thousandths of an inch.
And Speer is a bit more cautious than others, in my opinion, about sticking bullets in barrels. So there is no reason to doubt either source.

[Whiterabbit]

Thing is I have some of the Speer .235 bullets which with the right powder I can crank up to well over 2800 fps. How come I can't crank them up to near 2100 with SR 4759?

why couldn't you? you said the load data was for REDUCED RECOIL loads. They wouldn't spec max pressure loads.

Does the reduced recoil load data spec the cartridge pressure? if so I bet they will indicate the max reduced recoil load is WAY below sammi spec maximum pressure.

Meaning you ARE in fact free to load higher. I bet another load manual would confirm that.

[FLIGHT762]

4759 is a bulky fast burning pistol powder. Because of it's bulk, it makes a good powder for reduced loads in rifles. My best guess is since the 235 gr. bullet is a little bit heavier than the 220 you loaded and may have a longer bearing surface, pressures my get a bit too high to push it much faster with 4759.

I suppose you could call Speer and talk to them. I see the beginning load for that 235 gr. bullet with IMR 4895 is 64 grains @ 2420 FPS. You could try that for a reduced recoil load that might not be too punishing.

[Whiterabbit]

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

did you mean fast RIFLE powder?

[24Sailor]

4759 is a bulky fast burning pistol powder. Because of it's bulk, it makes a good powder for reduced loads in rifles. My best guess is since the 235 gr. bullet is a little bit heavier than the 220 you loaded and may have a longer bearing surface, pressures my get a bit too high to push it much faster with 4759.

I suppose you could call Speer and talk to them. I see the beginning load for that 235 gr. bullet with IMR 4895 is 64 grains @ 2420 FPS. You could try that for a reduced recoil load that might not be too punishing.

It's not the recoil thats the issue. it's price of components plus working the versatility of the cartridge. The Hornady 200s and 225s along with the Speer 235s are quite a bit less expensive than other bullets in this caliber. 35 grains of powder costs half what 70 grains of powder does. Plus with these loads you change the rifle from a dangerous game / big game buff busting rifle into something akin to a 30-30. If I really want to cream puff it out I can fill the case with Trailboss with the Speer bullets for ~1000 fps.

[Whiterabbit]

So, I'm still waiting for the 4759 I ordered, but dumb question, does the MAX reduced recoil load as per loading manual fill the case up the the base of the bullet? If not, I am SURE it's a max "reduced" load, suggesting speer capped the pressure at something (say, 25ksi or 30ksi) and found the max load that would reach that theoretical pressure. Called it "reduced" and published it. Knowing that you can sammi max it out for a MAX "non reduced" load.

All my musing depends on the empty space though. Nothing I can speak to from experience till my powder comes in (should be here! )

However, 1800 fps-ish, nice fat bullet, this sounds like a fantastic combo for a cast bullet load! That would be nice cheap shooting...

[FLIGHT762]

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

did you mean fast RIFLE powder?

Yes, a fast rifle powder or slow pistol powder.

[24Sailor]

So, I'm still waiting for the 4759 I ordered, but dumb question, does the MAX reduced recoil load as per loading manual fill the case up the the base of the bullet? If not, I am SURE it's a max "reduced" load, suggesting speer capped the pressure at something (say, 25ksi or 30ksi) and found the max load that would reach that theoretical pressure. Called it "reduced" and published it. Knowing that you can sammi max it out for a MAX "non reduced" load.

All my musing depends on the empty space though. Nothing I can speak to from experience till my powder comes in (should be here! )

However, 1800 fps-ish, nice fat bullet, this sounds like a fantastic combo for a cast bullet load! That would be nice cheap shooting...

Max load of 4759 according to the Hornady manual for their 220 and 225 grain bullets is 42 gr. I put in 39 gr. and it didn't come anywhere close to filling the case. Starting load is 34.4 gr.

Lyman and RCBS have some publish data on loads for their cast bullets using a variety of powders Unique, , Blue Dot, 4759 etc. The RCBS 260 gr. bullets loading between 1301 fps w/ Unique and up to 1975 w / IMR 4895.

[Mikeb]

Have you looked at the 38-55 load data?
Mike

[24Sailor]

(UPDATE)

Haven't messed with the Speers yet as the lot i got weigh in at plus to minus 5 grains.

Did load and shoot a few Hornady 220's though....Personally in my rifle I don't see a boat load of difference in recoil.....actually those 220 grainers only lose about 1.5" at 100 yards downloaded with SR 4759 vs. cranking them up to 2800 with rifle powder......Shot Both and recoil was quite tolerable...Perceived not much more than an .06