Can someone help me diagnose .45 reloading?

[SoCal AJ]

The Equipment:

Lee single stage press
Hornady .45 New Dimension dies (3 die set, Titanium Nitride)
Hornady 185gn HP/XTP bullets

Havent primed or used powder yet, just running a few dummy rounds for checking dimensions and such before I moved to that phase.
I ran 3 rounds through the seating die after adjusting the expander and then moved to seating. I measure the OAL and they were 1.2235


Colt

Ran the dummy rounds through the magazine and dropped the slide release from locked open, no issues and the rounds chambered just fine. Everything seemed great!

Then I got the idea to try them in my RIA and things changed dramatically!

RIA

Run the dummy rounds and each one fails to feed from dropping the slide! drop the magazine, load dummy round again and now it feeds, remove and inspect and the bullet is visibly much lower into the cartridge. Measure the new OAL and it's now 1.173 and after a few cycles down to 1.150


Go back to the colt, run one through and that one is also slight sinking into the case, now from 1.223 to 1.220


So am I over expanding the cases? Since they are even sinking a little in the Colt is it over expanding or do I need to do a crimp die?

But then with the RIA, is this a different problem? Perhaps it doesnt like feeding the profile of those bullets? Because each of them jammed right away!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=520964&highlight=expander+die

I see one comment about having trouble with the Hornady dies in general and another couple comments that seem to recommend a separate crimp taper die to resolve some similar issues. But my bullets don't feel loose in the case like the OP in that thread commented so I'm not sure if I have the same exact cause/problem that he does or not?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

[ojisan]

Sounds like not enough crimp....even if the crimp seems snug enough by finger pressure testing it may not be tight enough for repeated feedings.
The Colt feeds better and is not putting as much stress on the nose of the loaded round as it feeds.
The RIA during feeding is likely hitting the bullet nose hard and pushing the bullet back.

To test, you can take your bullet seat & crimp die and adjust it to perform the functions seperate.
First, back off the die body so it does not crimp at all, lower the bullet seater so it seats the bullets to the correct length and load a few rounds.
Next, back off the bullet seater so it does not contact the bullets at all, then screw down the die until that you get your needed crimp and then crimp your test rounds.

This is tedious to do for volume reloading.
Constantly adjusting the dies is a pain.
This is why seperate crimp dies are recommended.

[stand125]

If it is a new RIA GI, it is probably just a chamber that needs broke in. It is very common in new RIA GI's.

I ran a bunch of tinfoil down my barrel to help speed up the break in process and it seemed to help with feeding Lead bullets. FMJ feed very well in my RIA GI. The RIA manual even states that it is designed to run 230 FMJ ball ammo.

[SoCal AJ]

Sounds like not enough crimp....even if the crimp seems snug enough by finger pressure testing it may not be tight enough for repeated feedings.
The Colt feeds better and is not putting as much stress on the nose of the loaded round as it feeds.
The RIA during feeding is likely hitting the bullet nose hard and pushing the bullet back.

To test, you can take your bullet seat & crimp die and adjust it to perform the functions seperate.
First, back off the die body so it does not crimp at all, lower the bullet seater so it seats the bullets to the correct length and load a few rounds.
Next, back off the bullet seater so it does not contact the bullets at all, then screw down the die until that you get your needed crimp and then crimp your test rounds.

This is tedious to do for volume reloading.
Constantly adjusting the dies is a pain.
This is why seperate crimp dies are recommended.

Thanks, I was hoping to confirm crimp as a likely suspect. and I agree, constantly adjusting the dies would be too much of a pain compared to the relatively low cost of just throwing another die into the box and doing it as a separate stage. I think I'll be checking Midway and Natchezss websites...

If it is a new RIA GI, it is probably just a chamber that needs broke in. It is very common in new RIA GI's.

I ran a bunch of tinfoil down my barrel to help speed up the break in process and it seemed to help with feeding Lead bullets. FMJ feed very well in my RIA GI. The RIA manual even states that it is designed to run 230 FMJ ball ammo.

Yep, RIA M1911 A1 (although this one is the tactical FS) I've read in the past especially between ball and HP profile some guns just dont like it and will not feed it properly. I have 1,000 of the HP/XTP bullets from buying the AP LnL press so it looks like I'll be using those in just the Colt. If I'm reading Ojisan's reply right possibly crimp could help with that feeding too so I'll need to see how that goes.

I've only put about 200ish rounds through it, so if it needs a thousand or so before it's really broken in then that could be something I need to factor in as well.

I may be forced to go with 230gn FMJ ball but I'd like see if I can find a HP that they both like, and then sell off the remaining Hornady bullets or something like that. That seems spendy thought because all I really need is just a couple of each bullet to test it, but if you can only buy them in boxes of 100 that's going to be cost prohibitive.

thanks!

[Bill Steele]

Another thing to watch with XTP's and .45ACP is the shoulder break is pretty sharp. I generally load my 230gr XTP's to 1.220" to avoid having the shoulder jamming into the lands.

If your bullets are hanging up on the feed ramp (kind of diving), you can take some Flitz or Mothers polish and a dremel with a felt bullet tip and polish the feed ramp to make it smoother. When you polish it, just go slow and make sure you are only polishing it and not changing the angle or contour of the ramp. All my feed ramps start out a shooting session looking like a mirror. This will also help with HP's sticking after you have shot a few hundred and the feed ramp has a lot of soot on it.

Good luck, have fun.

[SoCal AJ]

Another thing to watch with XTP's and .45ACP is the shoulder break is pretty sharp. I generally load my 230gr XTP's to 1.220" to avoid having the shoulder jamming into the lands.

If your bullets are hanging up on the feed ramp (kind of diving), you can take some Flitz or Mothers polish and a dremel with a felt bullet tip and polish the feed ramp to make it smoother. When you polish it, just go slow and make sure you are only polishing it and not changing the angle or contour of the ramp. All my feed ramps start out a shooting session looking like a mirror. This will also help with HP's sticking after you have shot a few hundred and the feed ramp has a lot of soot on it.

Good luck, have fun.

Cool tip, thanks!!

[bender152]

I had issues with the bullet sinking further into the casing. Turns out I didn't have my resizing die seated far down enough.

The die was only resizing the top of the brass and that little tension is what held the bullet in place. With enough pressure, you could push the bullet deeper into the case.

[Fishslayer]

What brass are you using? R-P (to name one) is significantly thinner than others. So thin that I only use it for reloading .452" lead bullets. A bullet that sets back will also absorb enough energy that the gun can't chamber the round.

Check your seating die. It should be screwed down to where it takes all the belling out of the case but is not starting to crimp.

How new is your RIA? Most people have some issues with brand new guns and JHP. Mine runs JHP & SWC OK after a few hundred FMJ.

What kind of magazines? The ATC that came with mine was junk.

[gef]

Get yourself a Lee factory crimp tie and have fun. The RIA may not like the 185grhp until it's broken in and or the barrel gets throated.

[not-fishing]

Thanks, I was hoping to confirm crimp as a likely suspect. and I agree, constantly adjusting the dies would be too much of a pain compared to the relatively low cost of just throwing another die into the box and doing it as a separate stage. I think I'll be checking Midway and Natchezss websites...thanks!

That send "crimp only" die is what helped my revolver / pistol reloads.

I've learned to seat one stage and crimp a second. Never had a problem with crimp after that.

[Peter W Bush]

+1000 on seating and crimping in different steps. Lee FCD works very well with most calibers.

[Artsville]

Bullet setback happens all the time though doesn't it? If i feed factory round nose regular 45acp all day over and over after awhile the bullet is almost all the way pushed into the cartridge.

You also don't want to over crimp.


art

[Fishslayer]

Thanks, I was hoping to confirm crimp as a likely suspect. and I agree, constantly adjusting the dies would be too much of a pain compared to the relatively low cost of just throwing another die into the box and doing it as a separate stage. I think I'll be checking Midway and Natchezss websites...

While the taper crimp/LFCD die does make life easier, you still need to make adjustments from time to time. It's important to know exactly what's going on in each stage of the process with your particular die set.

I make adjustments to flairing/charging, seating and LFCD whenever I change bullet types and headstamp. Necessary? Sometimes yes, sometimes "not really." But proper adjustments will avoid overworking your brass (shortens case life) and can prevent shaving with lead bullets.

[NotEnufGarage]

Compare the feed ramps on the two pistols, as well as the frame to barrel interface. I'd bet the Colt has a much smoother ramp than the RIA. Also, see if the Colt barrel is throated and the RIA is not.

Some 600 grit paper, a pencil eraser and an hour of your time might fix the problem if it's just the feed ramp. If the barrel throats are different, time to call a gunsmith or get out your Dremel (if you're brave enough).