Which Lee dies for beginners

[gemini1]

Whats the best 223 dies for a beginner? I will be ordering the Lee breech lock challenger kit and on selecting the dies, I was held aback from the different types.
Theres this:

LEE PACESETTER DIES
Includes
FULL LENGTH SIZER
BULLET SEATER & ROLL CRIMPER
FACTORY CRIMP DIE
SHELL HOLDER
POWDER DIPPER
LOAD DATA AND INSTRUCTIONS

LEE COLLET DIES:
Collet neck sizing die,
Dead length bullet seating die,
shell holder,
powder measure,
charge table and storage box
*No case lubrication required
*Reduced or eliminates case trimming
*A ten times increased case life
*Unmatched speed and convenience
*Minimum bullet runout

Not recommended for autoloaders, slide or lever action guns

And there's also this;

DELUXE RIFLE DIE SETS
Want the choice of neck sizing or full-length sizing in one die set?
The Lee Deluxe Rifle Die Set does both.

*No case lubrication required
*Reduced or eliminates case trimming
*A ten times increased case life
*Unmatched speed and convenience
*Minimum bullet runout

There's also an RGB dies which is the cheapest but its just the 2 pc die.

I have an AR so I think the Collet die will not work for me since its not recommended for autoloaders.

I thought its the carbide dies that requires no case lublication and that its mostly available on pistol dies only? So would a Deluxe be a better option since its no case lube would mean one less step in the process?

I saw all of these here:

https://factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/dies-p2.html

[XDRoX]

If you're loading for an AR then you need to full length size. Even if the die is carbide you still need to lube for a full length size, I'm not buying that you don't need to lube part.

And I could never get that factory crimp die to anything. Mine must have been defective because I tried everything. I switched to Dillon dies and they worked fine.

[Briancnelson]

Buy the Pacesetter, and if you have an autodisc powder dispenser, buy the rifle loading die for it.

You can't use neck collet for an AR, you need to full resize.

The factory crimp works fine, if you follow the instructions. I use mine all the time. It makes them a bit more resistant to problems in the magazine. I recommend it for semi auto.

I have .223 dies in RCBS, RCBS small base, Dillon, and Lee (inherited most of them from a friend). I use the Lee ones as a set most frequently. I sometimes put in the RCBS small base if I'm sizing a bunch of new military brass, it does a better job on the ones that are stretched all to hell by a machine gun. The rest I'm considering selling, tbh. They do neither a better or worse job than the Lee for my purposes, and the Lee are easier to adjust in my press.

[gemini1]

You can't use neck collet for an AR, you need to full resize.

But the deluxe model says its both neck and full lenght sizing in one die, and it has a die for 223, so how can it not work?
Also, do you believe its no case lubrication feature does not work and I would still need to lube the cases?
Thanks

[Bill Steele]

For your AR, buy the Pace Setter Dies.

But the deluxe model says its both neck and full lenght sizing in one die, and it has a die for 223, so how can it not work?
Also, do you believe its no case lubrication feature does not work and I would still need to lube the cases?
Thanks

The deluxe set has both a full length and a neck sizing die included. You use the die that does what you want. The FL for your AR rounds each time and the neck sizer after you have fired a FL sized case in one of your bolt guns.

You need to lube the cases before FL sizing.

[ck66]

But the deluxe model says its both neck and full lenght sizing in one die, and it has a die for 223, so how can it not work?
Also, do you believe its no case lubrication feature does not work and I would still need to lube the cases?
Thanks

Neck and full length are seperate dies. Both are included in the deluxe set.

[XDRoX]

But the deluxe model says its both neck and full lenght sizing in one die, and it has a die for 223, so how can it not work?
Also, do you believe its no case lubrication feature does not work and I would still need to lube the cases?
Thanks

I don't know about that set but I do know that you can't do both at the same time with one die. That doesn't make sense.

I also know that if you want to resize a bottle necked case, you must use lube. No way around it.

My guess is that set comes with both dies, a full size and a collet. Lube is not required on a collet die, but is on a full sizing die. Just guessing about this last part, but I do know that you must lube to full size a bottleneck case.

[Briancnelson]

The Deluxe comes with both neck sizing dies, but skips the factory crimp die.

The Pacesetter drops the neck die and adds the factory crimp die.

If you are loading for a semiauto, you buy the Pacesetter.

Carbide dies are next to worthless for .223 unless you are reloading thousands a year. It just makes them a little more resistant to wear. You still have to lube any bottlenecked case, unless you enjoy drilling stuck cases out of the die.

[BigBronco]

However a carbide ball sizer will reduce case neck stretch during resizing.

[noylj]

Unless you are loading cast lead bullets or you are going to war, you don't need to crimp.
For bottleneck cartridges, all you NEED is a FL sizing die and a bullet seating die. Everything else is for benchrest-type accuracy concerns. I full length size my .30-06 and get 0.75" groups at 100 yards. I might get smaller with all the "recommended" case prep and such, but that accuracy is pretty much at my limit and even a perfect rifle would probably not reduce the group size that I am capable of shooting.
So as a beginner and as a semi-auto shooter, get the die set that includes just a FL sizing die and bullet seating die.
You don't need anything else

[XDRoX]

However a carbide ball sizer will reduce case neck stretch during resizing.

Dillon comes standard with this. Not sure about the Lee's though.

Unless you are loading cast lead bullets or you are going to war, you don't need to crimp.
For bottleneck cartridges, all you NEED is a FL sizing die and a bullet seating die. Everything else is for benchrest-type accuracy concerns. I full length size my .30-06 and get 0.75" groups at 100 yards. I might get smaller with all the "recommended" case prep and such, but that accuracy is pretty much at my limit and even a perfect rifle would probably not reduce the group size that I am capable of shooting.
So as a beginner and as a semi-auto shooter, get the die set that includes just a FL sizing die and bullet seating die.
You don't need anything else

I agree.

[ejhc11]

Yes, buy the Lee .223 deluxe set and just use the FL die, save the collet die for future bolt rifle. The third die is the bullet seater. I own it and use it for my AR rifle.

Also, I don't recall such a thing as a beginner die set. Maybe you can get a single stage press before moving on to a progressive that would be more of a beginner start.

[gemini1]

Thanks for all the advices/tips guys. So pacetter it is then.

[BajaJames83]

I got the deluxe works great for me!

[rsrocket1]

LEE COLLET DIES:
Collet neck sizing die,
Dead length bullet seating die,
shell holder,
powder measure,
charge table and storage box
*No case lubrication required
*Reduced or eliminates case trimming
*A ten times increased case life
*Unmatched speed and convenience
*Minimum bullet runout

Not recommended for autoloaders, slide or lever action guns

And there's also this;

DELUXE RIFLE DIE SETS
Want the choice of neck sizing or full-length sizing in one die set?
The Lee Deluxe Rifle Die Set does both.

*No case lubrication required
*Reduced or eliminates case trimming
*A ten times increased case life
*Unmatched speed and convenience
*Minimum bullet runout

The notes for the collet die apply to the Deluxe die set because the Deluxe dies set includes a collet die. The parts with the asterisk applies only when you use the collet die for depriming/neck sizing and not the full length die. You use one or the other, not both.

Furthermore, you use the collet die only when you are shooting those bullets in a bolt action or single shot rifle you shot the cases in previously. For lever/pump/autoloaders/multiple guns, you should always use the full length die with properly lubed cases.

You don't need lube with the collet die because there is no friction between the die and the case. The neck sizer simply squeezes the neck back to its proper diameter. The walls of the case are not touched by the die.