223 5.56 Win 748 69 grain SMK Accuracy Load

[Justintoxicated]

Hey guys, I'm having some trouble dialing in a load for my AR.
It's a bravo Company 1/7 twist 16".

So far I have worked up to 25 grains but I'm still not getting the best groups. It's not just me cause my friend gave me some BCL-2 loads he has been working on and I shot a good group with those.

Hodgdon says max load is 24.5 grains but 3 other sources (Hornady, Lymann, and Sierra) say I can go much higher, like 26.something grains.

Looking for some advice.

Go higher? Start over?

[Cheep]

I've used W748 25.5grns 2.251oal with 69SMK and grouped .785" with a 1-7 twist White Oak Barrel @ 100yds. I can do half that with 24.7grns of Varget...

[Justintoxicated]

I've used W748 25.5grns 2.251oal with 69SMK and grouped .785" with a 1-7 twist White Oak Barrel @ 100yds. I can do half that with 24.7grns of Varget...

Ok then I guess the Hodgdon data is not accurate for my platform, cause it worries me that they list the max at 24.5. I guess I have just not worked up to that load yet.

I have some Varget too, seems like good stuff. Only tested it up to 24.2 grains, when was my best load so far as well.

Thing is I have like 8 lbs left of 748, and 1/3rd lbs of varget. Varget seems to work great in my Mosin too, so next gun show I will probably buy it in bulk since right now these are primarily the 2 rifles I load for. Guess I will have to check what a garand likes as well if CMP ever gets them back in stock. Varget meters terrible compared to 748, but I tend to check each weight anyways so no big deal for now. Guess I will have to see how 748 does in the mosin so i can burn through it.

[OpenSightsOnly]

The CMP has the HRA Service Grade M1s unless you are looking/collecting for SA or WRA.

The M1 likes the IMR 4895. The Hornady manual has good info for M1 loading.

[Gunsrruss]

BLC-2

I would back your load down to 24.5gr of H335. That's what I used to make master shooting 69gr sierras. I use 24.7gr of BLC-2 for 75gr Hornady match. It's a wonderful load OAL is 2.255. I have won many matches with that. If you want to talk on the phone PM me,
Russell

I think the 748 is in the same burning rate as BLC-2 not sure....I use the BLC-2 for loading .308, .223, 8MM, and 6.5 X 55 swede it is surplus powder I get from HI-Tech ammo.com it's called WCC 846 $94 for 8lbs I have like 56lbs of it. HI-Tech also has WCC844 which is the same as H335 that's what I use to load my 69's with. They are both ball powders and meter well

[Jonathan Doe]

Try Vihtavuori N140 powder. It serves me well with heavy bullets. I just bought 10 pounds of Vih N540 to try with Berger 82 grain BT bullets.

[Hoop]

Is your brass consistent in size and headstamp? Are your loads consistent in OAL? Checking them for concentricity?

[Justintoxicated]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm using the hornady powder measure, with micrometer adjustment but I'm real picky! I want it exact to .1 grains on every throw.

Anyways I do feel right now that there are better powders but I still need to work with what I have which is 8 lbs of 748. Next time I may stick with varget or something similar. I was concerned going over hodgdon's maximum of 24.5 grains, but it seems like I am on the right track.

748 is slower burning than BCL-2 according to my Lymann manual.

I started sorting by headstamps and I trim to length and primer pocket uniform with sinclair bits. I'm using Redding competition seating dies.

[Hoop]

748 is about like 4895. BLC2 is a bit slower.

Hand weighing every charge is a waste of time your powder thrower is accurate enough for what you are trying to do.

Sierra max load for 223 AR with 69's and 748 is 25.8. If you aren't seeing pressure I'd try 25.5 you are probably in between accuracy nodes and need to go either higher or way lower...

[rumblebee]

I gotta say go with H4895 or Varget. Just got some Varget for .223 (75gr + bullets) and WOW...one ragged hole with 5 shots in it from my range trip yesterday. Those two will be my main powders for .223 and .308

That being said (and curious)...have you tried to run a heavier bullet in that 1/7 twist? Will\can the Win 748 handle a 75gr+ bullet? I don't have my Hornady loading manual in front of me.

[Justintoxicated]

748 is about like 4895. BLC2 is a bit slower.

Hand weighing every charge is a waste of time your powder thrower is accurate enough for what you are trying to do.

Sierra max load for 223 AR with 69's and 748 is 25.8. If you aren't seeing pressure I'd try 25.5 you are probably in between accuracy nodes and need to go either higher or way lower...

yea, I saw that in the sierra AR15 data sheet, but Hodgdon lists the other load and it's their powder. But I have 3 sources that say I can go higher... I started at 23. something, but its possible there was something else up with those loads (it's when I first stared and I was using mixed headstamps cause that is all I had).

Which source says BCL-2 is slower than 748? Lymanns was showing the opposite to be true, BCL-2 fastest of the 3, further down was 748, and further down the chart was Varget.

If someone gives me some 80 grain SMK's I'll try them out, but I don't really want to single shot load with my AR. I feel 69SMK's would be a good weight, and they should still operate in my other AR which is 1/9 twist. (haven't started developing loads for that one yet ). Once I master 69 grain I may try a heavier weight next.

[ar15robert]

I use wcc844 or h335 with 69 SMKs.
23.5 grains of powder and a rem 7.5 BR primer.
My rifle is a 1x9 twist 20 inch barrel

[GeoffLinder]

25.0 of 748 under the SMK 9 is the old tried and true High Power load from the mid eighties for AR-15's. At that time the SMK 69gr and the Hornady 68gr were the only heavy projectiles available for the AR-15. 25.1gr put the SMK69 into about 1 MOA from my Colt HBAR w/ 1:7 20" bbl for me.

You should be using the longest OAL you can get to fit in the magazine. I used to use 2.245" to allow a tad extra mag clearance but you can easily go to 2.255-2.260" and still fit in most magazines.

The hottest load is not always the best load for accuracy. I would suggest starting in the 24 to 24.2gr range and working up to 25.5gr in 2/10 gr increments. Shoot over a chrono and watch the velocity to make sure it stays in a 25-40fps range. Any more than that and something is wrong. You need to find a barrel node for that powder/bullet combo. Remember, all rifle barrels are different and each has a specific set of nodes for any given powder/bullet combo. When you get a small group size as you work up charge weight note that velocity as that is a barrel node. Once you have mapped the velocity nodes for that barrel you can then start playing with OAL and other variables to fine tune it.

Also, try sorting brass headstamps and using only one batch brass. Weighing and segregating brass into batches that are within 1.5grains of each other is also recommended for better results. Additionally, it is very important to trim cases to uniform length for best accuracy (1.75").

Do not crimp the bullet in place either.

Hope this helps.

[popeye4]

I left 748 many years ago (I also have a substantial fraction of an 8 lb jug left over, but I understand it is also really good fertilizer). It seemed that to get any kind of consistency, I had to load to the ragged edge, and 748 is somewhat temperature sensitive. Perhaps you should reserve it for your blasting/zombie loads. I have been using VV N140 for several years with good results, and I have heard nothing but good things about Varget (which I may try if the price of N140 keeps going up!).

I've also worked up a load for my rifle that is rather load insensitive (not much change in POI over about 0.6 grain range). I use a Harrell's powder measure and don't worry about weighing each charge.

[Justintoxicated]

25.0 of 748 under the SMK 9 is the old tried and true High Power load from the mid eighties for A-15's. At that time the SMK 69gr and the Hornady 68gr were the only heavy projectiles available for the AR-15. 25.1gr put the SMK69 into about 1 MOA from my Colt HBAR w/ 1:7 20" bbl for me.

You should be using the longest OAL you can get to fit in the magazine. I used to use 2.245" to allow a tad extra mag clearance but you can easily go to 2.255-2.260" and still fit in most magazines.

The hottest load is not always the best load for accuracy. I would suggest starting in the 24 to 24.2gr range and working up to 25.5gr in 2/10 gr increments. Shoot over a chrono and watch the velocity to make sure it stays in a 25-40fps range. Any more than that and something is wrong. You need to find a barrel node for that powder/bullet combo. Remember, all rifle barrels are different and each has a specific set of nodes for any given powder/bullet combo. When you get a small group size as you work up charge weight note that velocity as that is a barrel node. Once you have mapped the velocity nodes for that barrel you can then start playing with OAL and other variables to fine tune it.

Also, try sorting brass headstamps and using only one batch brass. Weighing and segregating brass into batches that are within 1.5grains of each other is also recommended for better results. Additionally, it is very important to trim cases to uniform length for best accuracy (1.75").

Do not crimp the bullet in place either.

Hope this helps.

With SMK's the tip varies too much to load to 2.260 I lead to ~ 2.255 but many rounds come out 2.260 (basically I have it at the longest length that will not go over 2.260. I do a very light taper crimp now, leaves a mark about 1/2 a mm on the case, and I do trim all my brass to 1.750. I'm pretty sure the way I am crimping now is not what is throwing the rounds off because the rounds my friend made using BCL2 are taper crimped the same way with the same die.

I started at I believe 23.3 grains and have worked my way up to 25 grains, accuracy seems to increase the higher I go. Perhaps I missed a barrel node at a lower charge because I was new to reloading. I guess I could start over if I have to. That's why I created this post to find what others are using because so far I'm not impressed with my loads.