Winchester 38 SPCL Brass oddity

[meaty-btz]

Well, I am currently prepping about 600 of my 3000 38 brass and I noticed something odd and very consistent about my 38 Brass labeled Winchester 38 SPL and my recent Winchester brass stamped W-W 38, they all have a slight necking down roughly 1cm from the base where it widens out to the normal diameter of the cartridge. At first I thought this was bulge. Then I noticed that it was on ALL of the Winchester brass I had, old and new, once fired and ones with 3 reloads through them.

Is this normal, or should I be worried about the integrity of the brass. My first impulse was "bulge" but now? Not so sure. Way to consistent. I tried to get a photo of it but it was not showing on the camera I have.

Your thoughts? I know its hard w/o a picture but the ramp is too insignificant to show on the digital camera on macro. Human eye Mark I picks it up fast and your fingers can detect the ramp as well.

[Fyathyrio]

What do your calipers say? Brand new or previously fired? Do you have other brands or just Win brass? Perhaps it's your gun?

[meaty-btz]

I have a ton of brands and only the Winchester is bulging. Once fired brass from standard commercial loads. Caliper says difference is .002", I tossed it into the sizer die and they sized back up just fine and the ramp smoothed. However when I pulled out the resizing die... I noticed something missing...................... yup the expander assembly. I thought that was odd so I checked my .357/.38 combo box spare for it.. was not there either. Checked my .45ACP set, yup all there. Some time in the last 15 years of storage my expander assembly for both my .357 and .38 sets disappeared. SONOFAB&#@! One I could understand, but on both die sets? What are the chances of that. Someone had to have been manhandling my die sets or something.....

I am thinking that the Winchester brass is "thinner" or weaker than the other brands of brass and thus expanded more when fired

[kurac]

Was the brass originally loaded with 148 HBWC's?

[meaty-btz]

Was the brass originally loaded with 148 HBWC's?

While I can't recall the old (15+years) Winchester Brass the new brass that shows the same deformation was Commercial Winchester White Box, FMJ. Most FMJ has to be loaded hotter than HBWC and SWC but the Remington FMJ brass does not show the same deformation. This "excessive expansion" is only present in my Winchester brass. I have at least 10 brands of brass and ONLY the Winchester shows this. While it is easily resized back into form that tells me this brass will have a short life.

Also, nearly all of my Speer Brass is cracked or splitting. WTH, cheap *** brass.

[Briancnelson]

I have been reloading a big case of Winchester brass this week. I shoot them pretty hot in a +p load, and I've noticed no bulging.

Mine's mostly very new, and it's from White Box Ammo. I'm wondering if your reloading gear isn't doing something funny during resizing that is weakening the brass in a specific spot? But it's odd its only the Winchester stuff.

I have had some pretty crappy Speer brass lately though. I was reloading some from some Gold Dots I shot in my snubby and they were screwed up after about 2 loads.

The UMC brass has been best for me, for whatever reason. I get a ton of reloads out of one brass.

[meaty-btz]

The the Remington brass is great! All my UMC brass is great.

I could blame the reloading gear on the brass changes but when it is on all my once-fired factory ammo that has never sat on my bench it has to be something else. Its not really a bulging but the entire diameter of the case starting about 1cm up from the base is wider after firing than the lower 1cm leading into the base. Place it in the resizing die and it goes back into shape.

Measurements are:

.3705" for the "narrower section" near the base
.379" for the rest of the cartridge.

This is for unloaded once fired Winchester WB brass. Same patterns appear in old twice fired and three fired Winchester brass. I will just chock it up to a mystery.

[noylj]

There is no expander in a pistol sizing die.
Stadard die set is:
sizer/deprimer
expander
seater/crimp

The old die sets (pre-progressive presses) were:
sizer
expander/deprimer
Seater/crimp

Personally, I think you are over-inspecting your brass and should just load it and fire it and see how it comes out.

[meaty-btz]

There is no expander in a pistol sizing die.
Stadard die set is:
sizer/deprimer
expander
seater/crimp

The old die sets (pre-progressive presses) were:
sizer
expander/deprimer
Seater/crimp

Personally, I think you are over-inspecting your brass and should just load it and fire it and see how it comes out.

I am one of those anal retentive types when it comes to reloading. Always was. All brass gets calipered and inspected under light for imperfections, substandard brass is discarded.


And I am an idiot. You are right sizing die is separate from the depriming/belling die!

I still plant to take my dies down to RCBS and have them cleaned and inspected. RCBS lifetime warranty + walk-in service ftw.