having problems with 200gr plated swc for 45acp

[Fishslayer]

My OAL is between 1.125" and 1.135". I was planning on getting the Hornady 45acp taper crimp die but I didn't know that the Lee FCD actually prevented case bulge. It sounds like the FCD is what I need. On that note, I think I'm using the wrong terminology when I say "case bulge", I actually mean you can see the shape of the bullet under the brass.

I think what's happening is in the bullet seating station I place the bullets on the case but they don't sit perfect (i.e. slightly tilted). Then when its being seated in the die it gets pushed straight down at that tilted angle, causing the bulge and sometimes buckling of the case.

I've added some pics below to show what I'm talking about. It's kind of hard to show the type of bulging I was referring to. I think it's because I was case gaging them and after a while I started pushing them all the way in and that seemed to have removed the bulging. Go figure? Anyway, there's an obvious wrinkle/buckling in the 1st pic and in the 2nd pic you can see how badly it fails the gage. When I use the barrel (I'm loading for a Sig P220 Carry with a 3.9" barrel) most of them drop right in, even the ones that failed the case gage. The ones that don't will stop anywhere from 1/8" to 1/16".

Firstly, plated/jacketed bullets are usually .451". Cast lead boolits are usually at .452"

That first cartridge is too long. The bullet should be seated to where the shoulder is about .01" above the mouth of the case.

Also looks like either:
A: you're seating die needs to be backed out a bit. Looks like it is trying to roll crimp the case mouth. Definite no-no with ACP cartridges whicj headspace on the mouth, OR
B. Your LFCD is way too tight. Snug it down on a seated boolit, then 1/2 (light) to 1 full turn (heavy).

Check your sizing/decapping die. Is the base of the case going all the way up? I use Glocked .45 brass all the time & never have a problem with a "plunk" test. I can really feel it when the bulge goes into the sizing/'capping die, tho. Might try case lube?

It's normal to see "bulges" or shiny spots where the bullet is under the brass and at the base of reloads. Kinda looks like an hourglass.

Lastly. Just enough flare/belling that the bullet will sit atop the case is fine. Too much flare will shorten case life. I actually adjust the expander/charging die when switching from plated to cast boolits.

[Fyathyrio]

Your Hornady dies came with 2 seater plugs, one is flat, one fits rounded bullets. Perhaps swapping the plug will give better seating? FWIW, I'm not using the flat one with my Berry's 200 gr SWCs and not having issues. I'm also seating and crimping with the same die without trouble. You picture above looks like there's a heavy crimp, pull the bullet and look for cut copper on the round, that'll tell you the crimp is to heavy which may be what's causing the crushing mentioned above. You can check how much crimp you have with your calipers also, but pulling the bullet will tel the whole story.

[mls204]

well, i went to the range and fired off the 98 rounds i made the night i posted this. had a LOT of failure to feed into battery, id say 1-2 for almost every magazine. pretty frustrating experience. i placed the order for a Lee FCD in all the pistol calibers i load for so ill report back once i get them.

My OAL was fine but i think im going to set them a bit shorter for good measure, and for the ones that did fire the accuracy and felt recoil was pretty good. This was my first experience with plated bullets and the ruduced smoke was very nice.

[mls204]

Firstly, plated/jacketed bullets are usually .451". Cast lead boolits are usually at .452"

That first cartridge is too long. The bullet should be seated to where the shoulder is about .01" above the mouth of the case.

Also looks like either:
A: you're seating die needs to be backed out a bit. Looks like it is trying to roll crimp the case mouth. Definite no-no with ACP cartridges whicj headspace on the mouth, OR
B. Your LFCD is way too tight. Snug it down on a seated boolit, then 1/2 (light) to 1 full turn (heavy).

Check your sizing/decapping die. Is the base of the case going all the way up? I use Glocked .45 brass all the time & never have a problem with a "plunk" test. I can really feel it when the bulge goes into the sizing/'capping die, tho. Might try case lube?

It's normal to see "bulges" or shiny spots where the bullet is under the brass and at the base of reloads. Kinda looks like an hourglass.

Lastly. Just enough flare/belling that the bullet will sit atop the case is fine. Too much flare will shorten case life. I actually adjust the expander/charging die when switching from plated to cast boolits.

thanks for the tips, ill double check my seater & crimp die. the sizing die is definitely going all the way down. i think the problem is with my seating/crimping. i should be able to resolve the issue by separating the seating and crimping steps when i get the LFCD.

whats a plunk test?

Your Hornady dies came with 2 seater plugs, one is flat, one fits rounded bullets. Perhaps swapping the plug will give better seating? FWIW, I'm not using the flat one with my Berry's 200 gr SWCs and not having issues. I'm also seating and crimping with the same die without trouble. You picture above looks like there's a heavy crimp, pull the bullet and look for cut copper on the round, that'll tell you the crimp is to heavy which may be what's causing the crushing mentioned above. You can check how much crimp you have with your calipers also, but pulling the bullet will tel the whole story.

hmm, 2nd person to tell me my crimp is/was too heavy. i shot all the rounds but for fun ill go load a dummy and see what the bullet looks like after being pulled. is a light ring around the bullet ok?

edit: i just doublechecked which seater plug im using and its the non flat one also. interesting that you are seating/crimping on the same die too...maybe my problem all along is just too much crimp?

[not-fishing]

I know it is an extra step to seat and crimp in separate dies, that single stage press users don't like.

I had problems with many different rounds until I seated then crimped -- and I use a single stage press so I have to readjust the die each time for the perfect crimp (roll or taper). Since I've made this adjustment I've had no problems with my reloads.

[Sub95]

""come out with a slight bulge from the seated bullet, and some even have a "wrinkle" in the brass itself.""

The wrinkle is from the case being to long or the die is to far down and if the bell of the case mouth is not open enough you will get the wrinkle where the bullet is at. I just did all of this tonight.

[John Browning]

Use the Lee 4-die set and your problems with auto pistol rounds will disappear due to the Factory Crimp die.

[Fishslayer]

thanks for the tips, ill double check my seater & crimp die. the sizing die is definitely going all the way down. i think the problem is with my seating/crimping. i should be able to resolve the issue by separating the seating and crimping steps when i get the LFCD.

whats a plunk test?

Drop a loaded round into the chamber. It should "plunk" & the base of the cartridge should be flush to just below flush with the breech. It should also drop right out of the chamber.

A word on crimp. The seating/crimper die does just that. It also closes down the belling at the case mouth.

Seating the bullet and removing the bell is ALL you want the die to do. You do not want any roll crimp in a .45ACP. The square case mouth is what headspaces the cartridge.

Many loaders say the extra taper crimp (AKA LFCD) is unnecessary. I disagree. The Lee Factory Crimp Die also has a sizing ring. It allows me to be a bit less precise with the seating die when loading cast boolits. A mis adjusted seating die can shave lead and cause jams. The LFCD allows me to back out the seating die a bit & still ensure the bullet is secured.

[Bill Steele]

One of the things I have found that really improves the consistency of my .45 ACP is I sort head stamps. Some brands use thicker wall brass and some thinner walls.

When I am loading larger diameter bullets like .452 lead or plated, I use thinner walled brass (like R-P head stamp for instance). These cases seem to work extremely well with larger diameter bullets eliminating chambering issues. I also run my lead and plated bullets through a sizing die to assure they are the size I think I am loading.

When I am going to load jacketed or plated bullets with a .451 dimension (like Hornaday 200 gr XTP or Montana Golds), I use the headstamps with thicker walled brass where I get good neck tension and I am not worried about chambering issues.

It takes a little extra time to sort my head stamps, but between small pistol primers, crimped primer brass, etc., I have to look at the head stamps anyway, so throwing them in separate boxes makes things pretty easy when I want to match brass thickness with bullet types.

[Fishslayer]

One of the things I have found that really improves the consistency of my .45 ACP is I sort head stamps. Some brands use thicker wall brass and some thinner walls.

When I am loading larger diameter bullets like .452 lead or plated, I use thinner walled brass (like R-P head stamp for instance). These cases seem to work extremely well with larger diameter bullets eliminating chambering issues. I also run my lead and plated bullets through a sizing die to assure they are the size I think I am loading.

When I am going to load jacketed or plated bullets with a .451 dimension (like Hornaday 200 gr XTP or Montana Golds), I use the headstamps with thicker walled brass where I get good neck tension and I am not worried about chambering issues.

It takes a little extra time to sort my head stamps, but between small pistol primers, crimped primer brass, etc., I have to look at the head stamps anyway, so throwing them in separate boxes makes things pretty easy when I want to match brass thickness with bullet types.

That's exactly the way I do it too minus the sizing die for the boolits..

x2 the thin RP brass. The worst I've come across is TZZ. I believe it's Israeli Arms, could be wrong. It's so thin I can often push a .452 bullet in with my finger. I don't come across a lot of them but they go straight in the trash along with the Amerc.

[Bill Steele]

Lots of room here for OCD...

That's exactly the way I do it too minus the sizing die for the boolits..

x2 the thin RP brass. The worst I've come across is TZZ. I believe it's Israeli Arms, could be wrong. It's so thin I can often push a .452 bullet in with my finger. I don't come across a lot of them but they go straight in the trash along with the Amerc.

I also use a couple of different sizing dies to get what I want. If I end up wanting to load some thinner brass with smaller diameter jacketed bullets, I have a Hornaday sizer that is pretty small relatively speaking. When I am loading thicker lead/plated bullets, I always use my Lee die as it it pretty loose. I just ordered one of those fancy Redding dual ring sizers, thinking that may be a die for all seasons. At $100, it better be...

[Justintoxicated]

That's exactly the way I do it too minus the sizing die for the boolits..

x2 the thin RP brass. The worst I've come across is TZZ. I believe it's Israeli Arms, could be wrong. It's so thin I can often push a .452 bullet in with my finger. I don't come across a lot of them but they go straight in the trash along with the Amerc.

I just had problems with RP and TZZ brass last week. Thought it was just bad brass... Guess I was right hah.

[wild_weasel]

Hello,

I had the same problem reloading 45 ACP, mostly with Federal brass, and the Lee Factroy Crimp Die cured the "max case gauge" no go problem.

Cheers,
W-W

I had the same problem with the case bulge and failure to feed using extreme 230gr. I purchased the lee factory crimp die with carbide sizing ring and all feeding issues solved. The die is less then $20 and works great.

[Californio]

My RCBS kit has a sizer only, decap/bell and seating only die. Don't over bell the case.

After all of the above. I use the sizer die and just run the finished product up to just kiss the sizer.

Been doing this for 30 years without a problem. I don't crimp just kiss the sizing die and all is well.

[mls204]

My Lee Factory Crimp Dies come tomorrow. I bought one for 38/357, 40, and 45. (I already have a taper crimp for 9mm)

For the time being I've been loading progressively up to the bullet seating stage. I adjusted my die to seat but not crimp. Then when I'm done I go back and crimp. It's been working out a lot better and I am not getting as many fails on the case gauge.

I also had to adjust my expander too as I was way over-belling the case.