Issue with Reloads for the AR

[hylander]

So this is the first time I have ever encountered an issue.
I am shooting my reloads: Been reloading for about 20 years.
Hornady 55sp on top of 24.8 of H-335, New Winchester brass and seated 2.250, No Crimp, I never crimp.
Any who, I load 3 rounds and fire 2, then the range master calls clear. I stop and proceed to manually eject the last live round, however the BCG is stuck closed, I tug alittle harder and it comes open and ejects only the case.
The Powder dumps into the action and the bullet is stuck about .020 into the Lands. I clean it up and prepair to fire again, BCG goes home, but something didn't sound quite right so I don't fire the round. I manually eject the round, takes a little bit of a tug and same thing, just the case ejects and the bullet is in the barrel.
I just checked and I can push the bullet back into the case by hand. I'm thinking I need to FL size all my New brass from now on and Think I may start adding a slight Crimp.
What say you ?

[Cheep]

Mine did the same thing last time I shot it, I used Barne's VG. I measured the bullet & it's 0.2245! A half a thou over my SMK's. My chamber is a Wylde & may be a little tighter than others. I made a medium crimp. You have some neck tension or it wouldn't need a tug to open.

[cjskalka]

Check the diameter of the expander in your full length resizing die, sounds like it is over sized or you are not resizing properly.

[BSlacker]

Although I Small Base resize my once fired 223 for use in a semiauto, I don't think that case size will lead to pulled bullets. If you are chambering so deep that the bullet sticks in the lands then your case size is small enough. Besides you are using new quality brass and it took some effort to remove the bullet the first time, later pulling of a bullet after one has already been in will produce a light pull. (How can you afford to use new brass?) My experience with new brass is that it has all kinds of burrs and tolerence issues right out of the box but you would not have a issue requiring small base dies. I would get a good look in the neck area of the chamber. You could have a small piece of brass/junk from a previous round stuck in the neck or leade. Or just scrub and recheck.
I will get flamed but I use the Lee FCD on all ammo used in a semiauto rifle. Its called Factory crimp because it is like a Factory crimp. Why do you suppose the factory crimps. One reason is to avoid the sort of thing you are having happen.
Anyway my quess is something in the neck or leade.

[popeye4]

Check the diameter of the expander in your full length resizing die, sounds like it is over sized or you are not resizing properly.

I agree. I always full size any brass going into a gas gun with a small base sizing die. New brass is not necessarily properly sized brass.

You don't have enough neck tension, you can increase that my turning down the expander ball a very small amount. Several manufacturers make resizing dies with inserts that size down the neck the appropriate amount so that you don't need to use an expander, but you don't really need to go that route if you don't want to. It sounds like the force of chambering a round (actually the force of the round stopping suddenly in the chamber) is causing the loosely held bullet to keep going once the case stops, then getting stuck enough in the throat to stay behind when you extract the round. If the neck tension is right, you don't need a crimp.

Zediker covers this in one of his books, can't remember if it is the "Handloading for Competition" or one of the "Competitive AR" books. I'll see if I can look it up when I get another spare moment.....

[rsrocket1]

Unless you check all the dimensions of each one of your new brass cases, I would FL resize them right out of the bag/box. I would also take any left over rounds you have loaded and see if you could push/pull the seated bullet. If the necks are sized properly, you should have no reason to crimp the bullets. If you have erratic neck tension, your groups will also be pretty inconsistent because the start pressure will be all over the place even to the point of having the bullet start out of the neck from just the primer going off.

Putting a factory crimp on a bullet that is too loose in the neck is hiding a problem, not solving it. Once you get the neck tension solved, if it makes you feel better, you can add insurance with a FCD. I have one, but never use it on .223 for my AR.

[hylander]

Problem was two fold.

1: As stated, I need to FL size all new Brass, The new Win Brass I used had loose neck tension.
Did the tension check on a few unfired rounds and I could push them into the case fairly easy.
Lesson learn.

2: The Hornady 55sp bullets were seated out way to far by .060 I had them seated at 2.250
OCL for that bullet for my AR's is 2.190, Hence the reason for the BCG needing a Tug to open on an
unfired round and the bullet stuck into the Lands.
Again lesson learned.

I measured OCL for all bullets I have and the 55sp is the only one that I can not load to Mag length.
Expander Ball measured .223, I polished it down to .222
This makes the ID of the Necks of the Cases .2215 after sizing, which should be plenty of neck tension and no crimp needed.

Thanks for the input guys
Anything I missed ?

[popeye4]

Problem was two fold.

1: As stated, I need to FL size all new Brass, The new Win Brass I used had loose neck tension.
Did the tension check on a few unfired rounds and I could push them into the case fairly easy.
Lesson learn.

2: The Hornady 55sp bullets were seated out way to far by .060 I had them seated at 2.250
OCL for that bullet for my AR's is 2.190, Hence the reason for the BCG needing a Tug to open on an
unfired round and the bullet stuck into the Lands.
Again lesson learned.

I measured OCL for all bullets I have and the 55sp is the only one that I can not load to Mag length.
Expander Ball measured .223, I polished it down to .2225
This makes the ID of the Necks of the Cases .2215 after sizing, which should be plenty of neck tension and no crimp needed.

Thanks for the input guys
Anything I missed ?

Just keep in mind that loading a round with the bullet touching the lands will cause the pressure to go up, and you need to rework the load.

[hylander]

Just keep in mind that loading a round with the bullet touching the lands will cause the pressure to go up, and you need to rework the load.

Yes, Load devolopment will start a new.

[killshot44]

Problem was two fold.

1: As stated, I need to FL size all new Brass, The new Win Brass I used had loose neck tension.
Did the tension check on a few unfired rounds and I could push them into the case fairly easy.
Lesson learn.

2: The Hornady 55sp bullets were seated out way to far by .060 I had them seated at 2.250
OCL for that bullet for my AR's is 2.190, Hence the reason for the BCG needing a Tug to open on an
unfired round and the bullet stuck into the Lands.
Again lesson learned.

I measured OCL for all bullets I have and the 55sp is the only one that I can not load to Mag length.
Expander Ball measured .223, I polished it down to .2225
This makes the ID of the Necks of the Cases .2215 after sizing, which should be plenty of neck tension and no crimp needed.

Thanks for the input guys
Anything I missed ?

Just keep in mind that loading a round with the bullet touching the lands will cause the pressure to go up, and you need to rework the load.

After correctly sizing the brass the bullets won't be moving forward when chambered. It is Extremely Unlikely that a 2.250" OAL is going to be anywhere near the lands for a 55gr in a .223 chamber. A 5.56 chamber is even deeper.

Not sure how you measured but the split-case method of measuring your chamber isn't the best one for an AR - pick up the Hornady tool for an accurate measurement.

[hylander]

After correctly sizing the brass the bullets won't be moving forward when chambered. It is Extremely Unlikely that a 2.250" OAL is going to be anywhere near the lands for a 55gr in a .223 chamber. A 5.56 chamber is even deeper.

Not sure how you measured but the split-case method of measuring your chamber isn't the best one for an AR - pick up the Hornady tool for an accurate measurement.

I have measured with the split case method and the cleaning rod method and the loose neck on the round method, they all come out the same.
These are my Max COAL measurements for this rifle and these bullets.
These are all I have on hand to Measure.
Hornady:
55sp: 2.190
55 V-Max 2.300
40 V-Max 2.300
Sierra:
63 smp 2.285
65 sbt 2.310


This is one of the 55sp that was seated at 2.250 and this is what it is after chambering.
Again this is the only bullet that has such a short Max COAL for my rifle.

[bruce381]

well sounds like you got it OAL was too long by 60 thousands

[cjskalka]

There's no way it was an OAL problem, you are seating to magazine length. The seating depths given by reloading manuals are called out because pressure is a function of seating depth, they are not there as limits of maximum length.

[bruce381]

those hornady look funny they have a straight side?

[hylander]

There's no way it was an OAL problem, you are seating to magazine length. The seating depths given by reloading manuals are called out because pressure is a function of seating depth, they are not there as limits of maximum length.

Yes it was an OAL problem, Regardless of why the manuals specify a seating depth is not the issue.
I had the bullets seated out to far and they were crammed into the lands, so when I opened the chamber on an unfired round the bullet was stuck into the lands and the bullet was pulled from the case.