Reloading Gear Check.

[Justintoxicated]

double post

[Justintoxicated]

Wow, I'm so confused now, almost to the point of getting a headache. This stuff is overwhelming, although I'm sure it will be much simpler once I get the manual in the kit... But for now it's just a list of stuff and I don't understand all the differences between the dies I'm getting and the ones you guys are recommending. I want to get something once and be done with it, and anything that makes bullet seating, measuring powder etc easier and faster sounds like it would be good for me. I'd like to avoid re-purchasing dies in the same caliber later if possible?

This is what I'm currently loading for

• AR-15 16" Barrel and 12x nikon scope 1/7 twist
• AR-15 eotech and magnifier carbine length gas 1/9 twist
• HK USP Expert 45acp

No they are not bench rifles, but I try to use them as such :P
I was getting 3" maybe 4" groups while sighting in my rifle last weekend with PMC Bronze 55 grain. I switch to 69 grain reloads my friend made and put 3 bullets through the same hole with the 4th in the group right next to it. (I was amazed!) I didn't even believe him but he said he watched it through the spotting scope, and I dunno where else those rounds would have gone.

So the die set I'm looking at getting either isn't good enough or I'd be better off with something cheaper? Sorry I don't speak the reloading lingo yet so trying to describe something to me isn't too effective yet. I need links so I can make sure I'm getting the correct stuff.

If I find equipment is inaccurate or hard to adjust I'm much less likely to even bother with reloading. I want this to be as painless, quick, and enjoyable as possible.

If you're springing for Redding dies, I'd recommend the two-die set with a Type S Full-length Bushing die, two bushings (.246/.245) and the Competition Seating die. A little more than the three die set but for another $50, better dies.
Lets you control neck tension with the bushings (take out the expander ball) and the seater is top-notch. I never crimp, FWIW.

Is this the set your talking about?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=248565

How is that different from the one I was planning to get, or even this one?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=319648

I have 0 experience so I find all of this very confusing I figured I'd be safe making decent ammo with the set I was planning to purchase since it was the same as the one my friend uses.

Sorry I still don't understand what the no/go gauge will be used for but I guess I can get those later or borrow my friends.

One thing to add to your order are 3 or 10 more die bushings....

Trimmer: Since you seem so interested in accuracy techniques, you will probably only be happy with a small lathe trimmer that can also inside case neck ream and outside case neck turn, so look at the Forster....

What are the bushings for? Link to what I need?

I think I'm going to get the lathe trimmer later. Yes there are cheaper ways I may go a cheaper route I really don't know. I might just use his lathe trimmer to get a feel for then make a decision. His range brass was accurate enough for me.

For high quality plinking ammo in an AR, a standard two die set from RCBS or Redding (I prefer Redding dies personally) will cost way less and work just as well for that application....

For .223 in an AR you will want a good roll crimp. On the 45acp, case wall tension holds the bullet as it headspaces on the case mouth. The die only removes the bell that is made to facilitate loading lead rounds.

So you can save some money in your die choice as was already mentioned here.

Primer pocket cleaner- to remove the powder burns and allow the primer to seat all the way down.

The primer seating arrangements on the single stage presses that I have looked at and used are a joke. I bought the Lyman press mounted priming tool; it works well and quickly gets the job done with minimum fuss. I had a spare inexpensive press (RCBS Partner) to dedicate it to as a priming system so I don't have to put it on the press, then take it off all the time. Hand primers are carpal tunnel waiting to happen IMO. I just fill the tray which doubles as a primer flipper, put on the lid, and attach to its special die that you mount on the press. Each crank of the press, put another case- and they are primed. No handling individual primers.

Link to the Redding Dies your suggesting and the Lyman press mounted priming tool? I pull to many results when I search I do have strong hands so maybe a hand primer would just be a good workout? I use these daily.

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/captainsofcrush.html

WHEW..


cliffs:

Please link me to the die sets and tools you are all talking about I don't understand enough to properly search for them, or understand fully why some of them are better / worse / better suited for what I am reloading.

I do want to make accurate rifle and pistol rounds even though they will just be shot out of myh BCM AR / HK Expert (Target pistol?).

[Whiterabbit]

Good grief, do you want to RELOAD or do you want to BUY STUFF? IMO strip down and buy the BARE minimums. Add stuff as you get deeper and deeper in. It will cost you less money, and you'll appreciate it more.

Unless you have the cash of course.

Tumbler? forget it. You can wet-soak brass for the first few batches. Tumbler later. That saves you $60. Weights check? forget it. Buy them later, when you go from great ammo to match grade. That saves $25.

What are the essentials? press, dies, pocket cleaner ($10), case lube. Then, during your first batch, when you say "man, a powder drop would be really handy", the investment makes sense. Or whatever device makes sense at the time.

[DannyInSoCal]

Be patient - Make your list with 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd choice for each item - Buy used and save HUGE...

[stand125]

I know that people think that I am crazy for always bringing it up, but I started with a $30.00 ( after shipping ) LEE classic loader in 45ACP and then got one for 9mm. I did buy a $35.00 Hornandy scale because I used a different powder than what the included powder chart showed. I cleaned my cases by filling a bucket with dishwashing soap and hot water and swished around, then left out overnight to dry. I took a second or two to wipe down the cases with a cloth. Besides components I spent a total of $70.00 and was able to load 45ACP and 9mm. Now I realize that you can buy a set of dies for $30.00, but you can spend that same $30.00 and have everything to load that caliber anywhere. It does take about a minute to load a round, but you will always have the kit as a back up for at the range, and you don't have to spend a ton of money and then decide that you do not shoot enough to ever make your money back. Once I realized that I will reload quite a bit I did get a turret press and a tumbler, but only because I had the money to get those things and only after I realized that I really like reloading. I still use my LEE classic loaders at the range when I am fine tuning my reloads.

[noylj]

never understood drowning your cases.
All you "have" to do is wipe the exterior of the case. Even scrapping the primer pocket is really a "feel good" activity.
I think too may reloaders spend too much time and money worrying about how shiny their cases are. At least, it isn't going to harm them or me...
Except for the time it takes, I could reload (and have) with the Lee Reloading Press (about $35). Lee dies come with shell holder and dipper. Lee's dippers, though, do not cover pistol loads very well (as I remember they come in 0.3cc, 0.5cc and 0.7 cc at the low end. A 0.4cc and a 0.6cc would help them cover more pistol cartridges, but they told me they aren't interested.
The die instructions also include some load information (again, for pistols, you will have to review the data on the instruction sheet or in Richard Lee's book to determine the weight of bullet and specific powder you can use the dipper for.
The thing about a dipper is that you simply can't throw an over charge of any significant weight, if you follow the simple instructions, and the Lee charges are all in the light target region.
Thus, you can begin reloading with just the press and the die set.
You will want to get a caliper (bottleneck cartridges) and other niceties, but you can make perfectly safe loads with just what Lee provides.
Justintoxicated really needs to sit down and either read at least two reloading manuals or the same manual twice so he knows what he is thinking about buying. He is so far into the over-kill region it isn't funny.

[Bongos]

I'd say consider more economical die sets for now. Rcbs and Lee make some mighty fine dies for at least 50% less than those Reddings cost. I'd say you could probably do without the primer pocket uniformer, but I'm no .223 expert either. Also, I'm not sure the micrometer parts for the powder measure are really necessary.

Those changes alone would save you about $200, pretty significant by my wallet. Don't forget to buy a couple different reloading manuals.

I'd go against that, Redding is the best you can buy and there is reason behind it... buy once cry once and move on,when you are more experienced, you will see going either Redding or Dillon the first time around is worth it!

[killshot44]

If I find equipment is inaccurate or hard to adjust I'm much less likely to even bother with reloading. I want this to be as painless, quick, and enjoyable as possible.

You may not be ready for handloading based on this comment.





As to your question about the Redding Dies, yes the first link is to the the dies I referred to. The second 3-die set you linked is NOT what you want. Those are for bolt-gun shooters who only size the necks regularly and only size the body occasionally. The Full Length bushing die sizes the whole case, shoulder and neck. The bushings (purchased seperately) are in .001 increments allowing one to create proper neck tension to hold the bullet.

I can tell you that if you buy cheap now it'll end up costing you more in the long run. Good tools make the work easier.

[Tzvia]

Justintoxicated-
Yep the dies can be confusing, as was mentioned already here, due to the 'for bolt action/for semi' choice. So I just bought this set:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=592925

Just the standard two die 'small base' die set which is a good choice for semi-autos where it needs to be full sized to function in the action. It works just fine and you will be able to make quality ammo and tailor the load to work best in YOUR AR.

This set: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=248565 would be something I would love to have. You get the full length resizing, and the use of bushings will control the neck portion- and that competition seater die is the bees-knees. I have one in .308 and the accuracy of the bullet seat (depth and concentricity) round after round is just amazing. It's overkill for making good quality blasting ammo, but if you want to build an AR with a very high quality barrel and want to shoot off the bench with it, that set will help make it easy. One day I plan to get one of those seater dies in .223, as I have an AR with a 24" stainless bull barrel built up for bench shooting.

I agree with the others here who say that Redding is the best. They are worth every penny.

And it's true that you can just get so loaded up with 'stuff' that reloading can become a hassle. But sometimes simple tools can make things easy. I use those plastic net bags that onions and fruit come in, and put my brass in them before tossing it in the tumbler. Now instead of dumping the stuff into a separator or fishing around in it- there is lead dust in there that you don't want to breathe in- I just grab the bag and slowly rotate it to get all the media out of the cases. OH- stop by your home improvement center and get a lead rated mask. I don't work around the tumbler without using one.

[drkphibr]

How I approached reloading...

The first thing I did was buy three reloading manuals by:

1. Lee
2. Hornady
3. Speer

There are plenty more out there and each reloader has their own preference. Read them each cover to cover (not long reads, as most of the books are load data). This will give you great grounding as well as history/background, which I found quite interesting. They each have vendor/product bias which is completely understandable.

The next challenge was gear. My approach was like a chef in a kitchen. No two kitchens will look the same or have the same items. Same is true for your reloading bench. Take everyone's (mine included) opinion with a grain of salt. Pick what you like, want and can afford. Regardless of what product line(s) you choose, gearing up WILL BE COSTLY. No two ways around that even with the entry level priced gear. Even more if you're doing more than one caliber initially.

But, think of it as an investment. You will hit breakeven (depending on how often/much you shoot) and then you will be saving upwards of 40-60% (or more) depending on where and how you buy your supplies (that's an art all by itself).

Bottom line, take your time, learn and do what YOU feel good about. Think of it like cars. There's a lot out there and you have to pick up what's right for your situation. Every single press will perform, just like every single car. The degree of performance and what you're willing to spend for that is what you have decide on.

IMHO, reloading is a hobby, an art, a science and an addiction. Once you get started, there is no turning back and that's a good thing to me.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[sequoia_nomad]

I'd go against that, Redding is the best you can buy and there is reason behind it... buy once cry once and move on,when you are more experienced, you will see going either Redding or Dillon the first time around is worth it!

You must be right, only the most expensive products are worth having. It's not like millions of round have been successfully loaded on Rcbs and Lee dies. What foolish advice I gave the beginner. I apologize, all knowing one.

[Bongos]

You must be right, only the most expensive products are worth having. It's not like millions of round have been successfully loaded on Rcbs and Lee dies. What foolish advice I gave the beginner. I apologize, all knowing one.

Ahh, I guess you are trying to be funny, it's like yea buy the RCBS dies and yea buy that one-shot lube crap, then Oh.. stuck case huh, well you can send it to RCBS and a check for $5 plus you cover shipping both ways to get your dies back, plus 3-4 weeks wait and Oh, in case you decide to buy that $20 RCBS stuck case puller, well it does not work (waste of money but hey you can't return it since you open the package and tried it. From an engineering side of things, the RCBS design sucks, the Redding is designed for if you get a stuck case, you can remove the decaping pin assembly and drive the brass out with a cleaning rod and malet... OH but you did not know that, but yet you would recommend the RCBS dies to a newbie, who will most likely experience a stuck case... the Dillon are also designed similar where you can disassemble if you get a stuck case... Well, I guess I am the all knowing one...

An FYI Redding is not double cost of RCBS, at most we are talking about $9... rcbs $27, Redding $36 difference (based on the 2 die set)
Dillon on the other hand is double $62 but it is because of the Dillon dies are specialized for progressives like the 550B and XL650 (spring loaded to clear spent primers)

[Justintoxicated]

So here is my revised list:

*IMAGE REMOVED*

I think I might ditch the redding pocket uniformer and order a set of small-rifle/pistol and large pistol from Sinclair instead. The redding one looks like a good deal for $22, but a a set of 2 that are the same sounds nicer. I'll probably just be chucking these in my drill press anyways so I don't need the extra accessories right?

They are OOS on the Hornady Trimmer, So I'll need to contact them to see if they will actually be getting them back in stock.

I guess I will go with the cheaper pistol dies.

[NotEnufGarage]

Go here... www.factorysales.com

Get the deluxe 4 die pistol sets and the Pacesetter rifle die sets.

Choose your press kit. I have the Challenger breech lock. Toss the beam scale and get a $25 digital from midway. Also a powder cup with funnel built in for another few bucks. Less powder and equipment handling.

If you're only planning on loading a few to a few hundred rounds per week, it'll be fine and it sure won't be $600. Probably more like half that.

You can always upgrade the press later to a turret or a progressive. If that's something you think you might do, skip the breech lock and just get the classic press. You'll have to set up your dies every time, but you won't have to buy a $4 bushing for every die.

[Justintoxicated]

Go here... www.factorysales.com

Get the deluxe 4 die pistol sets and the Pacesetter rifle die sets.

Choose your press kit. I have the Challenger breech lock. Toss the beam scale and get a $25 digital from midway. Also a powder cup with funnel built in for another few bucks. Less powder and equipment handling.

If you're only planning on loading a few to a few hundred rounds per week, it'll be fine and it sure won't be $600. Probably more like half that.

You can always upgrade the press later to a turret or a progressive. If that's something you think you might do, skip the breech lock and just get the classic press. You'll have to set up your dies every time, but you won't have to buy a $4 bushing for every die.

That site is more expensive than where I am looking
I don't mind the extra 4 bucks to be honest. I wish the case trimmer was in stock though