A discussion on brand loyalty

[XDRoX]

I think it says something about the product when people are so adamant about promoting it. They have obviously weighed the different presses and pobably owned severel different ones (since few people start out with one because of cost etc.) The fact that people recommend it is evidence of its value. I have 2 Lee presses and look forward to the day i can afford a dillon. Ive played with them at Fowlers and they look pretty awesome.

I agree.

And here's the thing. If I let someone interested in reloading come to my house and load 50 rounds on a SS, 50 rounds on a turret, and 50 rounds on a Dillon, I'm pretty sure they'd save up enough money to get the Dillon.

[Fjold]

[MaHoTex]

FJ, What kind of press is that in the middle? Never seen that before.

[MaHoTex]

I agree.

And here's the thing. If I let someone interested in reloading come to my house and load 50 rounds on a SS, 50 rounds on a turret, and 50 rounds on a Dillon, I'm pretty sure they'd save up enough money to get the Dillon.

XD, That is true, but when the shiney new box show up at their house with a progressive, they would have no clue what to do with it, or how to set it up. Then, when they finally did get bullet flying out the other side, it would be over my dead body that I would shoot those rounds... Just saying...

[XDRoX]

Frank how dare you blatantly spread your filthy blue propaganda in this thread?

[Bill Steele]

Free markets take care of these issues.

I always laugh when I read a post that Dillon's are too expensive or Lee is junk, etc. The truth is if any of these opinions were accurate, the company would not be in business.

On the "start with a single stage press" advice. I am not as convinced this is as important as maybe other advice one might give to a newcomer. I rarely take a strong stand either way as I figure if they get into trouble with one type of press, they likely would have gotten into trouble with one of the other types available.

My opinion is things like getting and actually reading a manual, so a person understands what is actually important and what is not, is far more important than what brand or type of press you buy. Nothing bothers me more than reading that someone proudly has not bought a reloading guide and is doing it all on the advice they get on the internet, now THAT is truly crazy.

I think advice like, "pick a less dense powder so you can't double charge the case" is far more important that what type of press you start with. But then, that is just my opinion.

[XDRoX]

FJ, What kind of press is that in the middle? Never seen that before.

It's a Lyman turret. Pretty nice press.

[Buddhabelly]

Pepsi all the way. Oh and blondes too.

You're so wrong. It's the Pepsi Zero and blue eyes raven beauties.

[Cowboy T]

XD, That is true, but when the shiney new box show up at their house with a progressive, they would have no clue what to do with it, or how to set it up. Then, when they finally did get bullet flying out the other side, it would be over my dead body that I would shoot those rounds... Just saying...

I'm with you. No way I'd fire that ammo, either!

While I'm finding all the "Cowboy T says Dillon sucks" red herrings really funny, they are nonetheless red herrings, so I'll ask it one more time: Does Dillon actually make a single-stage? If they do, I will stand corrected--matter of fact, if they do, I will go further and even apologize. I'm serious.

[Fyathyrio]

I bought my first gun in CA shortly before the big AB 962 deal. I learned about the proposed restrictions here on CalGuns and started researching reloading. I read forums here and elsewhere, got ABC's and a manual and read those also. I evaluated my mechanical abilities, ability to read and follow directions, maturity, reloading needs, ect and determined that the place for me to start was with a progressive press. Further research helped me decide that a Hornady LnL fit my needs and budget just fine.

The day the Governator signed that POS bill I placed my order. I started by only running one shell through at a time after getting the dies set up correctly. I measured and compared and even posted up pix here with questions and I've since successfully loaded and fired hundreds of .45 and .38 rounds using a variety of projectiles without any issues. While reloading does require the ability to focus, and the penalty for failure is great, it's really not that difficult of a process. I enjoy the mechanical complexity, the precision measuring, and I don't mind setting up dies and swapping calibers...the satisfaction of setting everything up correctly and manufacturing my own ammo to the best of my and the LnL's abilities have turned the activity of shooting into a full hobby that's much more enjoyable. With inovations such as powder through expanders and dies such as the RCBS Lock Out to back me up I can still have a safe session making enough reliable ammo for my needs in the time I have available to dedicate to this. Since I enjoy the setup more then the yanking of the handle, this works great for me.

Automatically starting on a single stage isn't as cut and dried IMHO.

[XDRoX]

I'm with you. No way I'd fire that ammo, either!

While I'm finding all the "Cowboy T says Dillon sucks" red herrings really funny, they are nonetheless red herrings, so I'll ask it one more time: Does Dillon actually make a single-stage? If they do, I will stand corrected--matter of fact, if they do, I will go further and even apologize. I'm serious.

Cowboy, then if I understand you correctly, you don't have a problem with Dillon or progressives. The thing that bothers you is when someone wants to learn to reload and a bunch of Dillon fan boyz flood the thread blinding saying to buy Dillon. You feel that their "brand loyalty" has them recommending a progressive when you feel a new loader should learn on a single stage.

Is this correct? If so, we really don't disagree on that much.

[Cowboy T]

Exactly. The new reloader has plenty of time down the road to get that SDB, RL550B, XL650, LnL AP, etc. if his/her shooting needs call for it. Mike Dillon certainly makes fine tools, and I won't disparage a fine tool. It's like teaching a new driver on a Ferrari 355 Berlinetta vs., say, a Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc. I'm not saying don't buy the Ferrari later on. :-)

Matter of fact, I know of an experienced reloader who picked up a complete SDB setup in .357 Magnum for something like $180. Everything--the whole setup. I hate him...only because it wasn't me. HELL YEAH I would've snapped that up!!

[Fjold]

FJ, What kind of press is that in the middle? Never seen that before.

The black and red press and the orange press are both Lyman presses. The black one is old.

[LGB Loader]

Exactly. The new reloader has plenty of time down the road to get that SDB, RL550B, XL650, LnL AP, etc. if his/her shooting needs call for it. Mike Dillon certainly makes fine tools, and I won't disparage a fine tool. It's like teaching a new driver on a Ferrari 355 Berlinetta vs., say, a Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc. I'm not saying don't buy the Ferrari later on. :-)

CT, that is your opinion. I respect that. I don't completely agree but that's my opinion.
I think people should live and let live. This is a hobby. A dangerous hobby but a hobby non the less. I see advice given sometimes that makes me want to scream "Really?!".
But remember, you will always have your opinion and everyone will have theirs. Everyone thinks they are right or correct in their logic but the bottom line is different strokes for different folks. Period.
Respect that and there probably wont be posts like this. I have to agree that this post was a bit on the other side of the street for some but I hope we can all take some positivity and move on.

Originally Posted by Cowboy T
I'm with you. No way I'd fire that ammo, either!
While I'm finding all the "Cowboy T says Dillon sucks" red herrings really funny, they are nonetheless red herrings,...

Cowboy... quit wasting your time, this is petty.

We are not talking about wives or girlfriends (or boyfriends for all you gay fellows or gals), we are talking about tools or presses and trying to form a positive movement for the glory of the 2nd Ammendment and ultimately, the Constitution. The firearm hobby should be fun and is fun. Let's not argue or fight, let's celebrate it.

Remember, Respect your fellow human being at least until he blatenly shows he has no respect for you.

LGB

P.S. Captain Morgan's and Coke tastes better than Captain Morgans and Pepsi...LOL

[Cowboy T]

Hmm...well, I'm sorry you feel that way LGB, but perhaps we can use this as a learning experience. If there's something specific that you feel was "over the top", that might help me in future conversations with people. Would you be willing to point it out so I can learn?

I must say, I'm a little confused by the inspiration for your second paragraph. It feels to me like a bit of a beratement, implying that I'm somehow disrespecting other people. Personally, I don't believe that I did that, but I've been wrong before. Again, specifics would help if you would be willing.

As for soft drinks, I personally prefer a 50/50 blend of raspberry-flavoured Nestea and lemonade. :-)