Lee factory crimp die

[dokamoto]

I've searched, but found nothing, so hope this is not a redundant question. Several bullet manufacturers recommend not using this die because it sizes the bullet too small, which causes poor accuracy and fouling. On the other hand, I have also read that using the factory crimp die eliminates the issues of reloaded rounds not feeding because they were not sized correctly.

If I don't use the factory crimp die, do I just use the die that seats the bullet and crimpss the case? Is that crimp sufficient?

Is there really an issue with using this die on commercial cast lead bullet reloads? I have bought bullets from Penn and Dardas. As you can probably tell, I haven't started reloading yet. Just completed my bench and mounted my Lee Turret Press today. I plan to upgrade to a progessive after I get the hand of it.

Thanks for any advice.

Dave

[wyattearp]

I'm assuming you are talking about straight walled pistol ammo and not bottleneck rifle ammo.
1st, the lee fcd will not resize your bullets. It will 'clean up' a loaded cartridge that may be slightly oversized as far as the brass case is concerned. If you full length resize your cases, this will not be a problem anyway. The benefit of the fcd is that you can use it to crimp your loads separate from and after seating the bullet.
You can use you regular seating die to do the same thing, lthough you will have to readjust your seating die to crimp after you have seated your bullets. You can use your seating die to seat and crimp in one step, but most will recommend against this.
I use the lee fcd on all of my straight wall pistol and rifle ammo. I produces an excellent crimp that is not sensitive to case length. And, I use cast bullets.
Wyatt

[Chief-7700]

I've searched, but found nothing, so hope this is not a redundant question. Several bullet manufacturers recommend not using this die because it sizes the bullet too small, which causes poor accuracy and fouling. On the other hand, I have also read that using the factory crimp die eliminates the issues of reloaded rounds not feeding because they were not sized correctly.

If I don't use the factory crimp die, do I just use the die that seats the bullet and crimpss the case? Is that crimp sufficient?

Is there really an issue with using this die on commercial cast lead bullet reloads? I have bought bullets from Penn and Dardas. As you can probably tell, I haven't started reloading yet. Just completed my bench and mounted my Lee Turret Press today. I plan to upgrade to a progessive after I get the hand of it.

Thanks for any advice.

Dave

Dave, Your going to find that some people on this forum swear by the FCD since it's the greatest crimp die ever invented. I'm not a believer in Richard Lee's FCD since a properly adjusted tapered crimp die does the job. That's why I use a bullet seating die and a separate crimp die. I find it strange that only Lee offers the FDC if the die is so great when why don't the rest of the die makers offer one?
Skee
Note: Cowboy I was nice.

[Sub95]

what are you wanting to use it on pistol or rifle?

I use a taper crimp from lee for .308 and get 3 shot group size of .264 out of a marlin XS7 22" barrel just free floated @ 100yds this is just what i found to work for me and that rifle. with the a none taper crimp my group sizes were .900"-1.5"

you can use standard FL die and just seat the bullets, rifle or pistol.

i dont crimp pistol ammo.

[dokamoto]

My thanks to all. I didn't specify that I will be loading straight wall pistol, 9mm and .45 ACP.

If I don't use the FCD, do I buy the taper crimp die and use that instead?

Thanks again,
Dave

[dokamoto]

...or does the bullet seating die provide sufficient crimp?

[Bill Steele]

Yes, you can just use the seat die, but...

As one of the guys that have endorsed the LFCD in the past, I guess I better provide an update.

I would say the LFCD will work great.... sometimes.

I do not agree that using a seating die to crimp is optimal. I will agree that many have done it for a long time with no noticed ill effects, but nobody will ever convince me seating and crimping in the same step is a superior way over a separate crimp step, especially if you are using softer lead or a plated bullet like Berry's.

On the LFCD specifically, as far as sizing bullets, in general, it will not. The only style LFCD that is properly setup and with the case centered in the shell holder that may even touch the bullet is the roll crimp die and in this case, only if you are running oversized bullets (not just .001 over but 2-3 thousandths over), then they could hang up on the hole in the collar that is the roll crimp tool and "size" or nick the bullet. Another time this style of LFCD might do this is if the hole in the collar is smaller than than it should be, something I am finding can happen with Lee dies.

As far as the carbide ring at the mouth of the LFCD "sizing" the round, well again, if the carbide ring is to spec (SAAMI maximum size for the round) and you use the size/de-cap previously in your process, you belled the brass properly (not excessively), then no, the carbide ring will not even touch your round as it goes up to get crimped. Unfortunately, I have found recently that in fact these carbide rings can come from Lee out of spec (too small), thus sizing (and crimping in a less than ideal method) each and every round, making crappy ammo. I recently had this exact experience with my new .45 ACP Lee dies, the carbide ring was smaller than it should be.

Soooo, the long story from a reformed LFCD user, I have decided to jettison the LFCD that came with my new .45 ACP Lee die set; I just ordered a Dillon crimp die to replace it.

I will keep using the LFCD's that are dimensioned properly as they work fine, but I would not recommend them anymore to new buyers. Get a Dillon or Redding crimp die and avoid any headaches.

[Chief-7700]

As one of the guys that have endorsed the LFCD in the past, I guess I better provide an update.

I would say the LFCD will work great.... sometimes.

I do not agree that using a seating die to crimp is optimal. I will agree that many have done it for a long time with no noticed ill effects, but nobody will ever convince me seating and crimping in the same step is a superior way over a separate crimp step, expecially if you are using softer lead or a plated bullet like Berry's.

On the LFCD specifically, as far as sizing bullets, in general, it will not. The only style LFCD that is properly setup and with the case centered in the shell holder that may even touch the bullet is the roll crimp die and in this case, only if you are running oversized bullets (not just .001 over but 2-3 thousandths over), then they could hang up on the hole in the collar that is the roll crimp tool and "size" or nick the bullet. Another time this style of LFCD might do this is if the hole in the collar is smaller than than it should be, something I am finding can happen with Lee dies.

As far as the carbide ring at the mouth of the LFCD "sizing" the round, well again, if the carbide ring is to spec (SAAMI maximum size for the round) and you use the size/de-cap previously in your process, you belled the brass properly (not excessively), then no, the carbide ring will not even touch your round as it goes up to get crimped. Unfortunately, I have found recently that in fact these carbide rings can come from Lee out of spec (too small), thus sizing (and crimping in a less than ideal method) each and every round, making crappy ammo. I recently had this exact experience with my new .45 ACP Lee dies, the carbide ring was smaller than it should be.

Soooo, the long story from a reformed LFCD user, I have decided to jettison the LFCD that came with my new .45 ACP Lee die set; I just ordered a Dillon crimp die to replace it.

I will keep using the LFCD's that are dimensioned properly as they work fine, but I would not recommend them anymore to new buyers. Get a Dillon or Redding crimp die and avoid any headaches.

Bill, You are about to get spoiled with the Dillon crimp die! Since you can remove the insert in order to clean out the crap that build up loading lead bullets with out changing your crimp settings.

[Bill Steele]

Bill, You are about to get spoiled with the Dillon crimp die! Since you can remove the insert in order to clean out the crap that build up loading lead bullets with out changing your crimp settings.

I am slowly working my way to a 550B, kind of like how Radar got that jeep.

The LFCD in principle is a great idea, being able to screw the crimp up and down without loosening the lock ring. Three of the four LFCD I own (the first ones I used) work perfectly. Ironically, two of the three are revolver calibers with the much more difficult to pull off roll crimp.

The problem with the design is the dimensions they have to hold for it to work as designed, seems to be outside their $10 retail price point. Frankly I can't understand how they make any money on any of their stuff.

In any case, I am looking forward to that ease of cleaning feature, along with the simplicity of that plain taper in the die bore and no under sized carbide rings!

[Chief-7700]

I am slowly working my way to a 550B, kind of like how Radar got that jeep.

The LFCD in principle is a great idea, being able to screw the crimp up and down without loosening the lock ring. Three of the four LFCD I own (the first ones I used) work perfectly. Ironically, two of the three are revolver calibers with the much more difficult to pull off roll crimp.

The problem with the design is the dimensions they have to hold for it to work as designed, seems to be outside their $10 retail price point. Frankly I can't understand how they make any money on any of their stuff.

In any case, I am looking forward to that ease of cleaning feature, along with the simplicity of that plain taper in the die bore and no under sized carbide rings!

Sooner or later serious reloader's will turn towards Dillon dies. Yeah, I drank the blue Kool Aid in the late 70's after I met Mike Dillon and very happy with the results.
Skee

[XDRoX]

Note: Cowboy I was nice.

I'll play the bad guy then.

The LFCD was invented to rip people off. It's not necessary and cleverly marketed to unknowing individuals as something needed to make reliable ammunition which is completely false.

Myself and about another million reloaders load reliable, quality ammo every day without this die. Are we just lucky or more skilled than the average reloader? Or do we just understand how to properly set our dies?

From everything I've read and seen the only thing the LFCD is good for is correcting mistakes and masking problems.

OP, this question is not directed to you, but all the heat I'm going to take because of this post.
If one guy can reload reliable accurate ammo without a LFCD, then why does another guy need it? What is it doing? In the 100 or so internet arguments I've had regarding this much debated die, no one has ever been able to answer this simple question. What does it do?

I'll tell you. It under sizes bullets, hurts accuracy, and adds an additional step to reloading. It does nothing beneficial.

To the OP, get a 3 die set, learn to properly set them up and go to town. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seating and crimping in the same stage. People have been loading like this for 100 years. If I'm loading on a single stage then I always use a 3 die set. On my progressive I seat and crimp in separate stages because I buy Dillon dies and it's more convenient.

People that say you need to seat and crimp in separate stages or that you need a LFCD need to learn to reload better.

[Cowboy T]

Oh, OK, I'll have a little fun. :-)

Now, now, we all know that Richard Lee is God. John Lee (His Son) is simply Jesus's physical manifestation on Earth, and Mike Dillon prays that he can be that good.

Of course, not being a Christian, I don't necessarily believe everything that "God" and "Jesus" say. The handgun FCD is, in my opinion, not necessary if two things are true:

1.) you have properly adjusted your dies (I have a video series for this), and
2.) your bullets are properly sized.

That's why the Pro 1000 press can get away with only 3 stations. The combination bullet seating/crimping die already does a fine job on both counts.

Here's where I could see the FCD coming in handy. If you're casting your own boolits and have more than one gun chambered for the same cartridge--say, a Ruger Security-Six and a S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum--the chamber diameters are likely to be a little different. Rugers can be slightly generous, and S&W's slightly tighter, at times. The same rounds that chamber perfectly in the Security-Six on occasion might not chamber in the Combat Magnum. But you don't want to maintain two large "stashes" of boolits, one for each revolver.

Before you go shooting, just run the ammo that you'll shoot through the S&W through the FCD. Problem solved, and since the chambers and barrel are tight, the ammo will generally shoot very well. I am in a very similar situation, and this solution does work well.

The other possible use is as a straight crimping die if you're using compressed powder charges. Seating and crimping in separate stages can be helpful in this situation, so the FCD can help here.

The third use is relatively new and is specific to semi-auto cartridges. This would be to "de-Glock" bulged cases with the FCD and the new Bulge Buster kit.

So, there are some good applications for the FCD. But for general reloading, I don't really see a use for it.

[dokamoto]

I appreciate all the inputs. I can see that there are two camps here, which is what triggered my question to begin with. That said, I see that there are times when the FCD might be useful, but for most cases, particularly when loading lead bullets, that it could have a negative effect, especially with mixed headstamp brass (which is what I have, from scrounging at the range), some of which might have thicker brass than others. The thicker brass cases, through the FCD, would undersize the base of the bullet, which could affect accuracy and increase the likelihood of leading/fouling. The light has come on and I now think I understand.

Thanks again,
Dave

[GSwain]

I appreciate all the inputs. I can see that there are two camps here, which is what triggered my question to begin with. That said, I see that there are times when the FCD might be useful, but for most cases, particularly when loading lead bullets, that it could have a negative effect, especially with mixed headstamp brass (which is what I have, from scrounging at the range), some of which might have thicker brass than others. The thicker brass cases, through the FCD, would undersize the base of the bullet, which could affect accuracy and increase the likelihood of leading/fouling. The light has come on and I now think I understand.

Thanks again,
Dave

If the FCD is compressing the base of the bullet, you will have resistance when pulling the crimped round out of the die.

[dokamoto]

Do I understand correctly from your post, that this would/could alert me that I have a resized bullet, thereby giving me the option to trash it?