Reloading for S&W M&P Compact 9

[ronas]

I've been using 115 g Berry plated bullets loaded to 5.1 grains of 231. I know that may sound high but when I used the load I've used for years with Beretta 92 FS I had nothing but jams and failure to fully cycle the action. That load is 4.7 grains of 231.

I tried 4.9 and still pistol would not fuction reliably. Then 5.1 and have not had any problems.


Well I now want to load up some Winchester 124 grain FMJ bullets with flat exposed lead base. All the load I've seen in my manuals are so low I can not imagine they would function in my pistol. The only exception is my Speer manual which for a round nose flat base bulllet with a cannalure weighing 125 grains. Manual shows shows 5.8 g to 5.2 grains of 231. Now that sounds about right. Manual is third printing, February, 1981.

Not sure what to do but I would think 5.1 grains would work, it did for the plated Berry 115s.

I would also mention brass is with Berrys so clean after shooting it's hard to tell the difference between fired and unfired brass. Of course the case of fired brass is expanded a little and that's how you can tell.

So anyone shooting a S&W M&P Compact 9? It's a great little pistol and if anyone is reloading for it I'd be interested in your load.

[XDRoX]

The pressure difference in 115gr to 124gr is huge. I know the data looks light to you, but it's because 124gr takes a lot less powder to create the same pressure. Without a chrono you're literally shooting in the dark

I don't load with 231, so I'm really no help, but what I wouldn't do is load to 5.1gr just because it worked in 115gr. The bullet differences can make a big difference.

Also 5.1gr of 231 under 124gr jacketed bullet will be over the top in any modern manual.
I do however, have a very old manual right in front of my that shows 124gr jacketed loaded to 5.3gr of 231 yielding a velocity of 1125fps.

[Bill Steele]

+1 for the above.

I have loaded W231 with 115gr RN FMJ and ended up at 4.8gr as my favorite load. This cycles all my 9's with no problems but it is not a real hot load, so I would guess your 5.1gr under the 115gr would be fine.

Whatever you do, when you go up in bullet weight, DO NOT use the same load that you used for a lighter bullet. To get equivalent pressures for a 124gr bullet, the load you used for a 115gr bullet would be reduced significantly.

Why not do the same "work up" starting at book START loads for 124gr bullets and work up like you did for the 115gr bullets?

Anytime you are above book specs, you are the test pilot. There are old test pilots and there are bold test pilots, but there are very few old, bold test pilots.

[ronas]

My May 2009 printing of Speer show following:

-115g TMJRN load range using 231 of 4.4g to 4.9g
-124g TMJRN load range using 231 of 4.0g to 4.5g

So what do you think of this logic? I was 2/10s of a grain over current Speer load and was using a plated bullet I should have safe reliable fuctioning. Therefore if I go 2/10s of a grain over factory recommendations for 124g Winchester FMJRN with flat base. Bullet is very very similar to Speer bullets.

[J-cat]

The reason you had to exceed Speer's data to get your pistol to function reliably is due to the following:

Fast powders such as 231 create less recoil than slower powders such as Power Pistol.

Compacts require more recoil to function reliably. They have stiffer recoil springs and lighter slides. They have less of a grip to hold on to and are more sensitive to wrist stiffness when you fire.

124's recoil more than 115's, so this problem may solve itself, though.

[Bill Steele]

Personally, I would not start above what you have in print. There is a bunch of stuff written about why extrapolation/ interpolation of load data to different weight bullets or even different loading with the same powder/bullet can be dangerous when you are above max loads. Most powders do not act in a linear manner when it comes to velocity/pressures.

Why not load some with the 124gr bullet start load data and work up? I mean, what is the worst that can happen if you start too low, you get to practice your failure drills? Besides, I always want to know the lowest charge I can reliably run my guns and still get the POI I want, costs less, less wear and tear on the guns.

Patience in reloading is not only a virtue, your life depends on it.

[XDRoX]

Ya Ronas, not to be rude, but come on. Just load some according to your manual and see if they work. Just load 10 rounds of each at different weights and see what works. It does seem like you're being really impatient or even a little lazy.

Also, like J-Cat said, 124gr bullets recoil more than 115gr. I also think that will fix your problem.

[ronas]

Ok for the 124 winchesters I'll start at 4.7 grains of 231 that's about the middle. What J-Cat says makes sense.

I've just had poor result lately loading light loads.

When loading for my Larue OBR 556 I have been loading to max to get it to fuction properly 100% of the time. I'm using 24.9 grains of BLC2 with 77g SMK and IMI brass.

Well I've switched to my LC brass and with everything else the same the bolt does not always lock open on last shot.

I shoot that rifle long range so as part of brass prep flash hole is cleaned from inside, primer pocket is swaged and uniformed and brass is trimmed to my trim lenght and case neck is chamfered inside and out.

So I weighed 10 preped IMI case and 10 preped LC cases. The LC cases are consistently lighted. So that means internal volume is probably greater than IMI and I'm not getting the same pressure internally with the LC.

So I'm going to load 1/10 or 2/10 more powder which I'm pretty sure is over the max load for 223 in that powder. But then I'm shooting with a Wylde chamber and it can take NATO pressures which are greater.

I'm just saying that over the years manufactures have significantly reduced max loads that were fine years ago.

[SandDiegoDuner]

When loading for my Larue OBR 556 I have been loading to max to get it to fuction properly 100% of the time. I'm using 24.9 grains of BLC2 with 77g SMK and IMI brass.

Well I've switched to my LC brass and with everything else the same the bolt does not always lock open on last shot.

Have you ever thought you maybe having issues with the rifle not the ammo? Does it lock back with factory 5.56 ammo? What about factory .223 ammo?

[Fishslayer]

You're aware that Berry's recommends using cast boolit load data with their plated bullets, right?

If your rifle and pistol won't function with a variety of published data loads I'd be looking a bit deeper than the finished ammo.

Any possibility your scale could be off?


sheesh.... another pretentious sports car avatar on a gun forum....

[ronas]

Have you ever thought you maybe having issues with the rifle not the ammo? Does it lock back with factory 5.56 ammo? What about factory .223 ammo?

Yes. I was told that my rifle has tighter tolerances than some and that the fact that I load near, at, or slightly over the maual recommendations is not unusual.

I don't have or shoot factory 223 or 556 rounds so I real can not say anything about that.

You're aware that Berry's recommends using cast boolit load data with their plated bullets, right?

Yes

If your rifle and pistol won't function with a variety of published data loads I'd be looking a bit deeper than the finished ammo.

I've only use 231 for pistol. Use only BLC2 because when chronographed has good velocity and was quite accurate.

Any possibility your scale could be off?

I don't think so it's a mechanical RCBS scale and I used counterweights to verify.

Also went to range today and 4.7 grains of 231 functioned perfectly with 124 Winchester bullets. I shot 4.8 grains one too but function and accuracy was fine with 4.7g.

[Fishslayer]

Maybe it's just a compact thing. Shorter barrel/slide/spring can be finicky. How old is the gun? Maybe it needs to loosen up a bit before it loves the 115 pills?

Sounds like you've found the sweet spot with the 124 tho.

[ronas]

Maybe it's just a compact thing. Shorter barrel/slide/spring can be finicky. How old is the gun? Maybe it needs to loosen up a bit before it loves the 115 pills?

Sounds like you've found the sweet spot with the 124 tho.

The pistol is very new less than 500 rounds thru it by my estimation.

I have reloaded the rest of the 115 berry's and after that I'm only going to use fmj and tmj 115 as I have quite a few of those. Not that many 124s, but they sure did work well with light load.

When I first got the pistol I called S&W tech service person and he told me the recoil spring on pistol is very stout.