Finally got my reloads sub-MOA (kinda)

[LloydXmas250]

Alright well not technically. I had one get away but it was all me. Knew it the second I shot. Anyway here are the details on my first reloads with 53 gr SMKs.

I loaded 53 gr SMK over 24, 24.5, 25, 25.5 & 26 grs of H335 in WMC brass with WSR primers. Of course the 26 grainers got left at home. Whoops. Anyway I set up my 16" AR and shot prone. I shot round robin style so one 24 then 24.5 and so on. I shot at regular paper targets so I wouldn't see my results until I was done, as I'm notorious for adjusting for a bullseye rather than for group size.

My first shot with the 24 grs was weird. It felt weird and it didn't hold the bolt back. I checked for a squib, none, and then walked to the target and nothing was there. Anyone have any clue what could have happened there? I have no clue. Brass looked fine too.

Back to my testing everything else went well. I was taking turns shooting with my step-dad who was trying out his own 30-06 reloads so it gave time to cool my barrel. Of course he accidentally shot my targets twice. haha. Overall 24.5 was my best group (kinda). With the 4 shots I didn't screw up I came to a .576" group. With the mistake it's really more like 1.75". But I'm very happy as it's my first time experimenting with these 53 gr SMKs. I'm sure if I don't pull that shot I would have definitely gotten my first sub-MOA group. I'll get there.

Another interesting note was the varying size of the groups. While the others weren't horrible, they weren't nearly as good as 24.5. I have to leave for work but I'll post pics of the targets later tonight. Let me have some feedback, and be nice, I know you all can do much better.

[Antihero47]

Hey Lloyd, how did you shoot the group? Is your gun scoped?

Where do you shoot?

EDIT: This was at 100 yards I assume?

[LloydXmas250]

Hey Lloyd, how did you shoot the group? Is your gun scoped?

Where do you shoot?

EDIT: This was at 100 yards I assume?

Sorry, I always forget to mention that stuff. I was laying prone on BLM land in the High Desert. There was no wind to a slight breeze. Gun is a scoped 16" M4 style AR. I free floated the handguards and put in a light trigger spring. It also has a break but that doesn't really affect accuracy. Range was 100 yards.

Like I said, on my first 24 gr shot it was weird and did not lock the bolt back and felt odd. No hit on the target. on the 25 and 25.5 gr targets you'll also see my step-dad's accidental shots on my target. The 25 gr target also looks like it has a string of three shots just above the X, making for a total of 6 .223 shots but really it was just a chunk of the target that ripped off. No hole in the board behind when I checked.

Again be nice and let me know what you think. Also, any ideas about that first shot? Thanks in advance.

[bumpo628]

Nice shooting; that 24.5 target looks good.

[Antihero47]

As for the first shot I could only think that it did not have the 24 grains of powder you thought it had. How are you charging the brass and did you preform a visual inspection?

What is your load specs, press used, die's used, and rifle twist?

I would work up a good 15 round batch of 24 grains, 24.2 and 24.5. I would shoot 5 or 10 of the rounds from each batch at 100 yards then move the target back to 200 if possible. With the small changes in charge weight its going to be negligible at 100 yards.

Nice shooting, I have a chrono you could borrow if you wanted to test the speeds out sometime.

[LloydXmas250]

As for the first shot I could only think that it did not have the 24 grains of powder you thought it had. How are you charging the brass and did you preform a visual inspection?

What is your load specs, press used, and die's used?

I would work up a good 15 round batch of 24 grains, 24.2 and 24.5. I would shoot 5 or 10 of the rounds from each batch at 100 yards then move the target back to 200 if possible. With the small changes in charge weight its going to be negligible at 100 yards.

Nice shooting, I have a chrono you could borrow if you wanted to test the speeds out sometime.

Thanks for the comments. I'm measuring out the powder on an RCBS 1500 scale and dispenser combo. I know it was on track cause I weighed everything twice. Still weird. Could it have been any kinda of a primer issue? Maybe a defective round that just broke apart?

I'm going to definitely work in the 24.5 range and make some slight changes. Shooting at 200 would also be interesting to see. Who knows how well these tiny guys behave at that distance.

As for the chrono, what is its benefit? I know it will tell me speed but why does that really matter if I'm accurate? I'm not questioning the use of them, just trying to understand. I'd be interested in taking you up on that offer in the future as well, I'd just be paranoid I'd shoot it.

[Fjold]

One other recommendation:

Sight your rifle to shoot 1-2 inches higher than the X in the Bullseye. That way when you shoot you won't tear up the aiming point. Your eye will try to center the crosshairs to the center of the target and if you put a hole in one side of it there is a natural tendency to aim at that spot instead of the X.

[Antihero47]

Possible improper ignition from the primer, bad charge weight. Obviously something happened with the round if it did not hit paper. We know the AR-15 uses the expelled gases from the fired round to blow the bolt back. Things to cause that are...

1. Bad Charge Weight.
2. Plugged up gas port. (maybe but doubt it, the round still would have hit where it was going at full velocity if not a little higher.)
3. Bad primer ignition.

Did you shoot .22 through it? Was that the first round you fired that day? Did you clean the barrel prior to shooting that bad round?

Chrono'ing the speeds will give you a speed you can use to create drop tables and figure out what MOA adjustments you will have to make to your scope to shoot at longer distances. This is the simple use for it.

Also, shooting your loads in a string will give you the velocites for all loads. This will allow you to check JUST how well your equipment is working. You can work out your velocity spread average and check consistency from powder to powder, primer to primer, or bullet to bullet. Keeping the velocity spread to low 20's and below is good. Obviously its as deep as you want to get into case prep and finding 'that load'.

I'm going to definitely work in the 24.5 range and make some slight changes. Shooting at 200 would also be interesting to see. Who knows how well these tiny guys behave at that distance.

Checking the velocity will tell you how far you could shoot these guys before going subsonic. Also, about your charge weight, Chrono'ing your loads can also tell you if that shot you flung high right or left was actually a velocity spike or a bad shot on your part. Obviously if they are all consistent then you should be making nice little bug holes. The left and right movement is normally incurred by the shooter or by wind.

[XDshooter]

One other recommendation:

Sight your rifle to shoot 1-2 inches higher than the X in the Bullseye. That way when you shoot you won't tear up the aiming point. Your eye will try to center the crosshairs to the center of the target and if you put a hole in one side of it there is a natural tendency to aim at that spot instead of the X.

That is a great idea. Thanks.

[LloydXmas250]

Yeah great tip Fjold. Although to be honest I sighted in first with 55 gr FMJ to make sure I was on paper and then shot these only knowing they'd hit the target. And I couldn't actually see the impacts. Next time I will definitely try this though.

Antihero, can you make charts based on velocity alone or can you find the ballistic coefficient from velocity and then make charts off of that? I'd love to try out the chrono. Where do you shoot? I like the desert myself, cause it's free and peaceful.

[Antihero47]

Sure, using http://www.jbmballistics.com you can choose your bullet from the drop down which has the ballistic coefficients stored for you. I have heard of MANY precision shooter guys using these drop calculators and getting on target at distance after knowing their velocity's and other environmental stats. I'm sure you can calculate the BC but I've never done it.

I've calculated an example using some guestimation,

53g HPBT Matchking, going 2900 fps at 10 feet from muzzle at 85*F with standardized pressure at sea level. You can change these settings with known data at the time.

After 525-550 it slows to subsonic and can have a mind of its own.

Calculated Table
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	2914.4	2.610	999.4	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.5	1.4	2492.3	2.232	730.9	0.111	0.0	0.0
200	-4.2	-2.0	6.4	3.1	2104.6	1.885	521.2	0.242	0.0	0.0
300	-16.3	-5.2	15.8	5.0	1752.8	1.570	361.5	0.398	0.0	0.0
400	-39.8	-9.5	31.0	7.4	1438.9	1.289	243.6	0.588	0.0	0.0
500	-80.4	-15.4	53.3	10.2	1194.6	1.070	167.9	0.817	0.0	0.0
600	-145.3	-23.1	82.8	13.2	1038.4	0.930	126.9	1.088	0.0	0.0
700	-242.4	-33.1	118.3	16.1	942.1	0.844	104.4	1.393	0.0	0.0

[Antihero47]

Oops, forgot to answer your question. I don't get out shooting as much as I used too. I normally shoot out in Banning/Beaumont area. On google maps it looks like a good 250 yard area if nobody is there.

[Darklyte27]

scoped carbine... lol

24 gr seems to be a bit low. Sounds like you were loading 1 rd at a time?
You said the bolt didnt lock back which sounds like it wasnt enough powder?

Also the first shot was a cold bore shot, could that be the issue? * question for more experienced shooters"

anyways, your best group was the 24.5 it seems so stick with that load.

[LloydXmas250]

scoped carbine... lol

24 gr seems to be a bit low. Sounds like you were loading 1 rd at a time?
You said the bolt didnt lock back which sounds like it wasnt enough powder?

Also the first shot was a cold bore shot, could that be the issue? * question for more experienced shooters"

anyways, your best group was the 24.5 it seems so stick with that load.

I love my scoped carbine. Haha. In the future I'll build a much more bench worthy gun. I'm just having fun seeing what I can do with this one.

As for the 24 gr mystery, I had taken a few zeroing shots with different reloads of the same powder so it was not a cold bore shot. And it being 24 grs was plenty of powder since all the rest of the 24 gr shots were fine. I weighed them all the same and had no differences. Mystery continues.