Why are other brand dies so much more expensive than Lee?

[sacto929]

Hello,

I'm going to get started reloading both handgun and rifle ammo. The handgun ammo will be primarily .45 ACP and .40 S&W with some 9mm and .357 Magnum thrown in. The rifle will be primarily .30-06 for the Garand, until I get additions to the stable....

My brother-in-law picked up a Dillon XL650 that was barely used, so that will be our press for this adventure. He has experience reloading, but it has been several years since he last did it.

I am looking at die sets for .45 and .40, along with .30-06 small base(?) for the Garand, and I have noticed that the compared to Lee dies the others are 2X-4X the price. Why is this? Are they really that much better?

I have read a great deal of rhetoric from all sides related to this brand being the best, or that brand sucks, and it sounds like the traditional Ford-Chevy debate. Personally, I don't care as long as it works well and is reliable. I've had a Ford, a Chevy and a GMC and had issues with all of them, but also liked each of them in their own way. I've had issues with the wife's Mercedes, too, so I know that high end doesn't necessarily mean "no issues".

I'm looking at reloading as a means to "recycle" and keep costs down while enjoying my renewed passion for shooting. The plan is to do monthly IDPA matches along with either monthly, or several times per year, military rifle matches. I figure that I will reload up to 1,000 rounds of each caliber per year, for now.

I appreciate any advice that you experts can provide on the subject. Thanks.

[gadjeep]

I have and use both Lee and RCBS dies and I prefer the Lees. Simpler setup, good lock rings, great price and includes shellholder. To be fair, I only reload pistol calibers so maybe other manufacturers dies are better when reloading precision rifle ammo. YMMV.

[chickenfried]

Dillon .38/.357 seating die is on the right, Lee on the left. Notice the nice funnel at the opening of the dillon, the same difference is present on the crimp die. The Lee Factory Crimp Die also adds a jerkiness to the handle stroke. The 650 runs smoother with the dillon dies versus the Lee. I'd have no problems running lee if that was all I could afford and the smoothness issue would bother me less if I was on a single stage.

But you've got a nice press that cost a pretty penny why go cheap on the dies? I already owned the lee dies so I wasn't eager to spend more money on another die set for the same caliber. But the dillon dies just work better with the 650. I can't speak about other brands, Lee and Dillon are the only dies I've used with my 650.

[Someguy925]

Bullet seater dies on a Lee doesn't have a secure way of locking down your adjustments. Over a period of loads, your ammo's OAL will slowly change. I know my Lyman and RCBS dies have some kind of nut you can use to tighten the bullet seating adjustment so it doesn't change.

[sacto929]

... But you've got a nice press that cost a pretty penny why go cheap on the dies?

I appreciate the sentiment. Actually, my brother-in-law is the king of the deal. He found the press, with two caliber heads (die holder, powder charge, etc.), basically NIB, for $300....

BTW, I like the picture. I like to touch and hold the options before making important decisions, but this sort of thing isn't carried in stores around here, so it's kind of hard to "kick the tires".

[SixPointEight]

Bullet seater dies on a Lee doesn't have a secure way of locking down your adjustments. Over a period of loads, your ammo's OAL will slowly change. I know my Lyman and RCBS dies have some kind of nut you can use to tighten the bullet seating adjustment so it doesn't change.

Have you ever used lee dies? Or are you pulling this out of...space

I have loaded about 1000 .223Rem with a lee seater die, that gets screwed into and out of a lee hand press on a regular basis. I've never had to reset it due to growing OAL.

Loaded about 800 .40 S&W on a lee seater die, same lee hand press, same conditions of screwing in and out as I do each stage. The only time I got different lengths was caused by bullet lube from lead bullets gunking up the seating stem. Wiped it with a q-tip and I was back in business.

Let me also say, my forster bench rest seater doesn't need a way to lock out the adjustment. It's done very similar to the lee. Every bullet I seat is within +/-.001 of the mean. So the design isn't flawed as you claim.

[surfish95747]

Have you ever used lee dies? Or are you pulling this out of...space

Loaded about 800 .40 S&W on a lee seater die, same lee hand press, same conditions of screwing in and out as I do each stage. The only time I got different lengths was caused by bullet lube from lead bullets gunking up the seating stem. Wiped it with a q-tip and I was back in business.

Let me also say, my forster bench rest seater doesn't need a way to lock out the adjustment. It's done very similar to the lee. Every bullet I seat is within +/-.001 of the mean. So the design isn't flawed as you claim.

I do use Lee dies and have been having a problem with loading my .40 S&W. My OALs are always varying and I cant seem to get it consistent. I use the 4-turret press. When I would load with a freind he used the single press, and never had a problem with varying OAL's. I dont know.

[GeoffLinder]

My biggest gripe about Lee dies is they have aluminum lock rings that suck hind teat IMHO. The Lee dies are OK, but for a 650 I would definitely recommend using the Dillon seating die as noted above.

Another thing to remember is that for pistol loading you definitely want a carbide die set so you don't need to slop the cases with lube like you do with rifle.

I have a Lee sizing die on one of my Dillon 550 toolheads and it works fine, but I use the Dillon seating and crimp dies on that toolhead because they work better IMHO.

You should use a dedicated crimp die on a progressive rather than just setting the seating die to crimp for you. This means a 4th die is always needed when you buy a 3 die set from any mfgr other than Dillon

[Chief-7700]

Dillon .38/.357 seating die is on the right, Lee on the left. Notice the nice funnel at the opening of the dillon. The 650 runs smoother with the dillon dies versus the Lee. I'd have no problems running lee if that was all I could afford and the smoothness issue would bother me less if I was on a single stage. But you've got a nice press that cost a pretty penny why go cheap on the dies?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[SixPointEight]

I do use Lee dies and have been having a problem with loading my .40 S&W. My OALs are always varying and I cant seem to get it consistent. I use the 4-turret press. When I would load with a freind he used the single press, and never had a problem with varying OAL's. I dont know.

For handgun rounds what do you consider varying? What bullets are you using. Have you measured the length of the bullets. More likely than not, a couple thousandths either way is from your bullets. I don't use a turret, but I hear they have a bit of slop built in, so if you aren't using the same pressure each time, that could be it too.

[XDRoX]

You should use a dedicated crimp die on a progressive rather than just setting the seating die to crimp for you. This means a 4th die is always needed when you buy a 3 die set from any mfgr other than Dillon

Why should you use a dedicated crimp die?

[mif_slim]

Lee works fine. I've used my lee dies and have well over 30k thru it. My progressive I just got, again, I've already put at least 12k thru it and they are running on lee dies. My 7.62x54r is RCBS and it works just like a lee except it comes in a green box and I have to buy a seater for it.

[uscbigdawg]

Sacto929 - I've got two die manufacturers in the shop. Dillon and Redding. The best just cost more. That's not being snobby or overly simple (okay...maybe it is), but the best are the best and they cost more. My 1050 in 38 Super, has loaded over 80k, no variation on the dies and their performance. The 1050 in 40, has loaded over 30k. The 650, between 38 Super (steel), 9mm, 223 and 45 has loaded over 100k rounds. My Redding dies are used for my bolt rifles (and now 38 Super for Bianchi Cup) and are all their full length, Competition Seating Dies.

Did the cheap route when I started 'cause that's what I could afford at the time. They did fine (I used RCBS dies as everything Lee always feels cheap) but when I started taking shooting serious and my ammo serious, I bought the best.

Just my opinion though.

Rich

ETA: If y'all would like to see/compare some dies, just say the word as I assume you're in Sac.

[GeoffLinder]

Why should you use a dedicated crimp die?

Crimping while seating the bullet is a very rude thing to do to the bullet. The bullet is still being pushed into the case as you are pushing the case mouth into the bullet. At best you are scratching the bullet jacket, at worst you are gouging it and shaving some copper back.

A roll crimp can be done this way without too much extra damage (the roll crimp always creases the jacket anyway), but as mentioned above, it is a very rude process. Taper crimping cannot be properly done in the seater die. Straight-wall semi-auto pistol cases must be taper crimped, end of story on that.

[Cowboy T]

The real reason other brands of dies cost more than Lee

The actual reason other brands cost so much more than Lee is because enough people will pay it. It's called, "whatever the market will bear." Personally, I use Lee dies because they work very well, they don't break the bank, and they last for (so far) tens of thousands of rounds. Others report having a lot more than that on their dies.

I can tell you that Lee dies turn out mighty fine ammunition, and at a very good rate on several types of progressive presses. DIRTY LITTLE SECRET: more than one Dillon RL550B owner has Lee dies on his/her press, including the Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure! They don't like admitting that, of course, but they do it. ;-)