Armor Piercing Rounds Legality

[Cato]

I thought they weren't legal in California. I was just up at Burro Canyon and the RO asked me if I had any. I said no. He said Turners carried some AP Turkish (?) stuff. Are they legal?

[JeffM]

Only AP pistol ammunition is regulated.

[CSDGuy]

AP ammo for handguns is what's regulated. Rifle rounds will generally penetrate any Level IIIA vest anyway... and probably won't slow down enough to matter in the process.

[HK-DEMON-]

I hope this helps you.

[jwest]

Wow, wonder who's monitoring this thread....

[WTSGDYBBR]

There is tons of mild steal core out there. Steal core is the best for the zombies .

[jwest]

Does the steal - steal the zombies? (just a good natured poke (steel)).

[21SF]

Wow, wonder who's monitoring this thread....

Does the steal - steal the zombies? (just a good natured poke (steel)).

What?!?!?!

[B Strong]

I thought they weren't legal in California. I was just up at Burro Canyon and the RO asked me if I had any. I said no. He said Turners carried some AP Turkish (?) stuff. Are they legal?

Steelcore rifle ammo is just about everywhere, lot's of WWII surplus and M855.

It's not necessarily true AP, but it passes in the eyes of many.

[GrizzlyGuy]

The relevant penal code sections are 12320 and 12321:

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state
knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon
conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state
prison, or in the county jail for a term not to exceed one year, or
by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both
such fine and imprisonment.

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state,
manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports
any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or
armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and
imprisonment.

If someone headed out to the range with such ammo they could apparently get charged with two different crimes: transporting it (12321) and possessing it (12320).

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I thought they weren't legal in California. I was just up at Burro Canyon and the RO asked me if I had any. I said no. He said Turners carried some AP Turkish (?) stuff. Are they legal?

Many shooters mistakenly use the terms "armor piercing", "steel core", and "steel jacketed" interchangeably. Even the term armor piercing has different definitions under military use, Federal law, and California law.

The RO at Burro probably wanted to know if your projectiles contained steel because of the sparking/brushfire problems they have. Armor piercing ammo is perfectly legal to own and use under California law as long as it isn't "handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor."

[B Strong]

Many shooters mistakenly use the terms "armor piercing", "steel core", and "steel jacketed" interchangeably. Even the term armor piercing has different definitions under military use, Federal law, and California law.

The RO at Burro probably wanted to know if your projectiles contained steel because of the sparking/brushfire problems they have. Armor piercing ammo is perfectly legal to own and use under California law as long as it isn't "handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor."

Bingo.

I've seen steel-core 7.62 X 39 kick up some pretty good sparks, and afaik there have been fires in socal attributed to steel core ammo use.

[CD MCKINNEY]

I have thousands of Israeli 7.62x51 NATO M61 [black tip] armor piercing bullets, and I've been selling them all over the country;
I have read the actual California laws and I do not see anything which prohibits me from selling them to people in California.


2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law
CHAPTER 2.6. AMMUNITION

12321. Any person, firm, or corporation who,
within this state, manufactures, imports, sells, offers to
sell, or knowingly transports any handgun ammunition
designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor is guilty
of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine
not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both
such fine and imprisonment.

12323. As used in this chapter, the following
definitions shall apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition
principally for use in pistols,revolvers, and other
firearms capable of being concealed upon the person,
as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used
in some rifles.

(b) "Handgun ammunition designed primarily
to penetrate metal or armor" means any ammunition,
except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily
designed for use in rifles, that is designed primarily to
penetrate a body vest or body shield, and has either of
the following characteristics:

(1) Has projectile or projectile core constructed
entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other
substances, from one or a combination of tungsten
alloys, steel, iron, brass, beryllium copper, or depleted
uranium, or any equivalent material of similar density
or hardness.

(2) Is primarily manufactured or designed, by
virtue of its shape, cross-sectional density, or any
coating applied thereto, including, but not limited to,
ammunition commonly known as "KTW ammunition,"
to breach or penetrate a body vest or body shield when
fired from a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person.
(c) "Body vest or shield" means any bulletresistant material
intended to provide ballistic and
trauma protection for the wearer or holder.
(d) "Rifle" shall have the same meaning as
defined in paragraph (20) of subdivision (c) of Section
12020.

[This final section says that all AP bullet PROJECTILES are legal]:

12324. Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit
the possession, importation, sale, attempted sale, or
transport of ammunition from which the propellant has
been removed and the primer has been permanently
deactivated.

I cannot see anything in the law that prohibits me from selling/shipping 7.62x51 NATO M61 [black tip]
armor piercing rifle caliber bullet projectiles to California OR prohibits any adults there from having them.

[xr650r]

AR10 pistol + 308 black tip = felony?

[CD MCKINNEY]

The laws detail the differences in what is and is not "handgun AP ammo" AND what is/is not
considered a "handgun" and/or a "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person"

12001. (a)(1) As used in this title, the terms
"pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include
any device designed to be used as a weapon, from
which is expelled a projectile by the force of any
explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a
barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also
include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more
in length which is designed to be interchanged with a
barrel less than 16 inches in length.

(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun"
means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person."

So YES, a .308 pistol loaded with AP bullets is illegal; but
NOT a rifle [16" barrel or more] except during a crime:

12022.2. (a) Any person who, while armed
with a firearm in the commission or attempted
commission of any felony, has in his or her immediate
possession ammunition for the firearm designed
primarily to penetrate metal or armor, shall upon
conviction of that felony or attempted felony, in
addition and consecutive to the punishment prescribed
for the felony or attempted felony, be punished by an
additional term of 3, 4, or 10 years. The court shall
order the middle term unless there are circumstances in
aggravation or mitigation. The court shall state the
reasons for its enhancement choice on the record at the
time of the sentence.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.pdf