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Mk262 clone too hot?

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  • #16
    FLIGHT762
    Veteran Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 3072

    Originally posted by bluebird
    Flight762,


    I understand the idea of duplicating MK262 is to match the real MK262's velocity while maintaining safe (chamber?) pressure. I'm just confused when people said that we cannot exceed the SAMMI specification (55000PSI) while the mil spec chamber is rated at 62000PSI.

    If we throw away accuracy for a moment, can we just put as much powder as we want as long as we don't get too close to 62000PSI (or 55000PSI? I'm not sure)? When people say that MK262 is too hot, do they mean the round will create a chamber pressure close to 55000PSI, or are they worrying about something else like exploding brass and burnt primers? I don't understand why people are so nervous about exceeding 55000PSI IF (and only IF) the TRUE maximum is rated at 62000PSI. Thanks for your input!
    When you work up a load for your rifle, you will have to stop increasing the powder charge at some point when you reach dangerous pressures.


    When term "Too Hot" means dangerous pressure levels have been reached, but each rifle is a bit different. What may be a too hot of a load in my rifle may work safely in your rifle. You will get the signs, flattened and cratered primers, pierced primers, galling in the case head-ejector mark imprints and blown primers.

    As an example, when the Hornady TAP ammo became popular, I decided to try some for our team. I contacted Hornady's L/E department. They shipped me a few boxes of the 308, 155 gr. and 168 gr. TAP ammo.

    The ammo shot great in our bolt rifles, but when I ran it in a SR-25, It was blowing primers. On a few of the rounds, the primer fell out of the empty brass. There was also heavy galling of the case head from the ejector. This ammo was not suitable for the SR-25. The brass was not reloadable due to the primer pockets expanding excessively.

    I contacted Hornady, sent then some fires cases and the rest of that lot of ammo back for their testing. I was told they would look into it.

    I was sent a newer lot of the 168 ammo to try. This ammo ran fine in the rifle. We bought some of the ammo and it ran fine in the SR-25's. I don't know what they did to tweak the ammo, but they did. I was also told, I wasn't the only one to bring up the issue.

    That first test lot of ammo was safe in a bolt gun was not safe in a gas gun.

    If you can find a copy of the Sierra 5th edition loading manual, they provide loading data in the .223 Remington for bolt guns and for gas guns(tested with an AR-15). If you compare the powder charges for the 69 gr. Match bullet and the 80 gr. Match bullet (I don't know why they didn't test the 77 gr. bullet in the bolt gun). You will see the bolt gun actually can take higher powder charges(of the same powder) than the AR-15 does.
    When they are loading, they aren't jamming the bullet into the lands.

    The point is, the Military Factory loaded M-193 ammo and now M-855 ammo has a bullet ogive profile at a COL that causes pressure issues in a SAAMI spec .223 Remington chamber due to the shorter throat in the .223 Remington, but it will run at safe pressures in the 5.56 NATO chamber.

    If you have a bolt gun in .223 Remington and want to shoot Military spec, factory loaded ammo, you can get your .223 Remington chamber reamed to a Wylde specs. Problem solved.

    As with everything that has been said before, when you are hand loading, you load up to what your rifle will handle safely.

    As far as your question on a Mk 262 clone, Sierra lists a load with their 77 gr. Matchking with a maximum load of 24.0 grains of TAC, showing a velocity of 2950 FPS our of their 20" Colt Ar-15A2 HBAR test rifle.

    The whole point to the Mk 262 ammo is to give our troops a better terminal bullet than the M-855 out of the M-4.

    Comment

    • #17
      Patrick Aherne
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 1064

      Actual Mk 262 ran great in my LMT uppet. There are a number of loads that work as well as or better than Mk 262. Your chamber, as F762 said, is going to be key.

      Comment

      • #18
        joelogic
        Calguns Addict
        • May 2008
        • 6593

        Hey guys, I don't own a .50 dtc but can you explain to me how to anneal the brass. Also how do I go about making my own 750gr solid brass bullets.

        Sorry OP, I had to. If you think match ammo is expensive maybe shooting isn't for you. What until you start pricing out glass.
        Micro/Mini Reflex Red Dot Sight Mount for the M1, M1a/M14 platform

        Comment

        • #19
          bluebird
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 722

          Thank you everyone for the replies. They really solved my question

          JoeLogic:

          The biggest problem for me is that I currently don't have the opportunity to own any firearms due to my current situation (not financially related) which I'm not at liberty to talk about for now. Please understand that.

          I completely and utterly understand why you think I should not ask questions like these if I have never even handled a firearm. I am just a curious and intellectually hungry individual who just can't wait to learn things that I am interested in, even when I do not have the chance to obtain the tools needed for the job.

          I am fine with you asking about .50 dtc related topics here if you are truly interested in it because it is an indication that you will one day make your own bullets and anneal brass.

          I hope you are not trying to stop people from learning just because they don't have the opportunity to obtain something. I truly believe that this forum is created for people who want to share information and learn from one another. I hope you are not annoyed by me because this topic has been discussed 100 times, if that is true.

          Please forgive me if there are any grammatical or spelling mistakes. English isn't my mother tongue.

          Comment

          • #20
            joelogic
            Calguns Addict
            • May 2008
            • 6593

            Its great to learn. I think the point some of us are trying to make is that once you start reloading you will understand that there is no need to study the chamber pressure of a given round. OcabJ is a great shooter and knowledgeable reloader so his word is sound. But when reloading we work our way up watching for sign of overpressure not reverse engineering a round. It can be unsafe to start at an unpublished max load.

            If and when you do buy an AR just get one in 5.56 and chase velocities until your heart is content.
            Micro/Mini Reflex Red Dot Sight Mount for the M1, M1a/M14 platform

            Comment

            • #21
              bluebird
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2010
              • 722

              Originally posted by joelogic
              Its great to learn. I think the point some of us are trying to make is that once you start reloading you will understand that there is no need to study the chamber pressure of a given round. OcabJ is a great shooter and knowledgeable reloader so his word is sound. But when reloading we work our way up watching for sign of overpressure not reverse engineering a round. It can be unsafe to start at an unpublished max load.

              If and when you do buy an AR just get one in 5.56 and chase velocities until your heart is content.
              Got it. Thank you very much for the guidance I really appreciate it

              Comment

              • #22
                Falstaff
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2010
                • 2317

                Originally posted by FLIGHT762
                Just a question.
                Most if not all off the shelf AR-15 type rifles will have barrels chambered in 5.56 NATO or Wylde chamber. I don't think you're going to find an AR-15 upper chambered in .223 Remington. There were some made years ago, I had a upper in the 80's from Olympic Arms in .223 Remington. I know this because I tried the upper on an M-16 lower and the upper would cycle fine on semi-auto, but it would not cycle properly on full auto.
                .
                You are totally incorrect Flight, Sabre defence (among others, Bushmaster, RRA) has marketed .223 AR-15 uppers for a while now. I know because I bought one a few months ago that came with specific instructions NOT to use 5.56 in it. What you did back in the '80's has very little to do with the OP's question. Placing an AR upper on an M-16 lower and getting failures to feed on FA is FAR more likely to be related to the FCG and BCG than the minute chamber dimension differences. (I betcha your "AR" upper had an "AR" BC BTW which would make FA IMPOSSIBLE...). I would go so far as to say as near as I can tell MOST "precision" or "varmint" barrels are chambered in .223.

                Comment

                • #23
                  Falstaff
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 2317

                  Originally posted by FLIGHT762
                  As far as your question on a Mk 262 clone, Sierra lists a load with their 77 gr. Matchking with a maximum load of 24.0 grains of TAC, showing a velocity of 2950 FPS our of their 20" Colt Ar-15A2 HBAR test rifle
                  I think this is the answer to your original question, you shouldnt have told these guys you had no firearms experience, it distracts them! That being said, keep this in mind gentlemen: Most of Ferrari's Formula one engineers have absolutely no racing experience, but they still make the fastest cars in the world!

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    FLIGHT762
                    Veteran Member
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 3072

                    Originally posted by Falstaff
                    Placing an AR upper on an M-16 lower and getting failures to feed on FA is FAR more likely to be related to the FCG and BCG than the minute chamber dimension differences. (I betcha your "AR" upper had an "AR" BC BTW which would make FA IMPOSSIBLE...)
                    .
                    It was actually an M16-A1 upper re-barreled with a 16" .223 Remington chambered barrel W/ the F/A BCG. Just didn't want to work full auto reliably.

                    Comment

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