decent savings in 223? 308?

[CALI SHOT DOC]

I'm thinking of purchasing my first rifle that will be chambered either in .223 or .308 and was wondering what kind of savings people average when they reload these calibers. The rifle isn't going to be used for hunting, just for long distance target shooting.

[joelogic]

Long distance with a .223?

You can save over 50% when loading match ammo, 25% with plinking stuff.

[killshot44]

Long distance with a .223?

You can save over 50% when loading match ammo, 25% with plinking stuff.

I shoot a .223 to 1K, no sweat.....(there's a Match tomorrow at Sacramento, 300, 500, 600 and 800yds - come on up!)

Joe's #s are pretty much right there. Even with the best/expensive components (Berger bullets, Lapua brass) I can still make
better than factory match .223 ammo at less than .40 per round.

And with the price of match .308 ammo being what it is, I can't imagine NOT handloading. Virtually all competitive shooters roll their own.

[WILDMAN442]

Even for blasting ammo you can get it pretty cheap man.

And if you dont already reload this is just another fun hobby...

Justin

[GeoffLinder]

Unless you load for high quality, nowadays it's just about a wash between buying bulk .223 and the cost of components. Add time spent and the bulk stuff starts to look better and better for just plain plinking and basic practice.

I know this is so for .223, not sure about .308 component versus bulk ammo cost ratios.

[Chief-7700]

Unless you load for high quality, nowadays it's just about a wash between buying bulk .223 and the cost of components. Add time spent and the bulk stuff starts to look better and better for just plain plinking and basic practice.

I know this is so for .223, not sure about .308 component versus bulk ammo cost ratios.

I disagree with your statement! I reload for two .45ACP's and the factory ammo that is available is questionable for accuracy, where my reloads will print sub 1" groups at 15 to 25 yards if I do my part.

$17 to $25.00 per 50 factory.
$7.00 per 100 reloads that my .45's like. You can do the math.

[joelogic]

Accuracy or not, .223 I load for $140 a case and wolf is $220 a case. Even if you factor in my labor, I am still ahead. But if you have more money than time than yea bulk factory is a good deal.

[GeoffLinder]

Accuracy or not, .223 I load for $140 a case and wolf is $220 a case. Even if you factor in my labor, I am still ahead. But if you have more money than time than yea bulk factory is a good deal.

Hmmm, lessee-here'

Primer is 3 cents, you get 250 rounds of .223 from a lb of ww748 powder and a lb is about 22 bux so that's about 8 cents of powder. 1000 bulk Hornady 55gr FMJBT go for about 80 bux, so call it another 8 cents for a good 55gr, double that for a SMK 69 projectile.

3+
8+
8 = 19 cents a round in just component cost.

Granted you can get better pricing buying 5-10k of stuff at a time, but remember, no cost for brass was factored here. This means you have to be scrounging and then there is doing all the prep and the time spent loading. I figure gathering 1k of range pick is a couple hours hassle including drive time and fuel spent, then you have 3-4 hours spent doing the brass prep and loading work.

The math from here on is based on $25/hr.

3 firings max from once fired range pick brass and it cost you $50 to get it so it's 5 cents a case. divide by 3 and you have 1.6 cents a case.

3 hours at $25/hr makes that 1000 rounds cost you another 7.5 cents

Now add 9.1 cents to the 14-19 cents components alone can cost and you now have reloads costing you about $230-280 per thousand in real worth.

Back about 10 years ago this exact same math came out to about 12-13 cents a round labor included. Bulk 55gr ammo was $150-180 a 1000 so this was a better cost/value ratio.

For general plinking and most practice shooting I now burn whatever cheap 55gr fodder I can get cheapest. It just doesn't make sense for me to load plinking ammo for my AR's

Pistols are another story entirely, you get many more firings from 9mm brass, powder cost per round is less than 1/6 what it is for .223. This puts cost per round for reloaded 9mm down in the 160-170 per 1000 range labor included and about 10 cents a round component cost only

Having a lot else to do in my life nowadays, I only roll my own AR ammo for match grade usage anymore.

[joelogic]

This debate probably has been going on since the begining of time. Kill my own food or work to buy killed food?

First, Math. Primers are $.02, Powder is $.05 and bullets are $.07. Yes you have to buy in bulk but that why Costco is so popular.

Second, range brass is free. I paid $50 to shoot a match not pick up brass. The brass is a bonus. People fire rifle cases 7-10 times.

Third, I dont make my pay rate 24hrs a day and I like reloading as a hobby.

Not trying to pick a fight as we have meet before and you seem like a nice guy. In conclusion if you have money, buy. If you dont figure a way to save money, ie reload.

[WILDMAN442]

All money debating aside...

Your going to end up shooting more anyway. Whatever money you would save over how much your spending now will be out the window. But look at it this way, you can shoot more for what you pay now...

Least thats what I have experienced.

Justin

[GeoffLinder]

I am not wanting to argue, really, but reloading cost savings depends on several factors and you just cannot say it's cheaper across the board anymore.

I will however strongly disagree on .223 rifle brass being able to be re-loaded 7-10 times. The best life I have gotten from once fired was 6x from some really good Lake City brass. WW and Federal are more ductile and I start to see bright bands near the base after 3-4 additional loadings. The life-span also depends on how hot it's loaded. I load for decent velocity so I don't push brass life. Nothing like a case separation to make you wonder why you tried to squeeze another loading out of a batch of brass

Component costs have almost doubled since the late 90's and have almost tripled since I started reloading in the late 80's. Since then however, loaded ammo costs have not also tripled, they have barely gone up by 100% (doubled).

In 1987 .223 could be reloaded for less than half what loaded ammo cost, in 1998, that factor changed a bit and reloading costs started to get to about 2/3 what loaded .223 ammo cost and things have now reached the point where there is less than a 25% gap in many cases and almost no gap in other cases (this depends entirely on the deals you can find)

Buying bulk and getting a decent deal on components is the biggest factor in getting costs below what I specified above (costs I noted in previous post are all based on buying 1000 bullets, & primers and 1lb of powder at a time). The lower costs specified in Joelogic's post are unrealistic for a beginner and not attainable unless you buy bulk components.

Second, the cost ratio on loading versus buying loaded depends a lot on caliber/type and what kind of ammo quality you are trying to put together (plinking grade, match grade, ultra grade).

Pistol ammo is for the most part cheaper to load than buy and most exotic calibers of rifle (read anything other than .223 and .308) are also gonna' be cheaper to load than buy (once you have the brass that is).

The tools you have to have cost a good bit too and I won't even begin to factor in the amortization on them.

Truth here is somewhat subjective, but in reality the cost spread is not that far off anymore and the reason I choose to buy certain types of ammo rather than load them anymore.

Also the point made about shooting more when you reload is a very good one.

Finally, the single most important reason to reload IMHO is to control quality and construction type and custom tailor ammo to your gun and your needs. When you are doing this type of loading, cost concerns go out the window for the most part. A Sierra SMK 77 bullet runs 15 cents in bulk nowadays and 25 grains of Varget will dock you another 9-10 cents even when buy it in bulk. WW SR primers in bulk will cost you about 2.5 cents nowadays IME. YMMV

[joelogic]

Ah, I see the problem. Its really just a vantage point issue. You have been reloading and shooting for much longer than I have. I got into 3 gun about 2 year ago and was buying factory ammo .223 for $300 a case at the beginning (I am sure 30 years ago it was much cheaper). During the last two years a case of .223 went to $450+ and thats when I started reloading and components stayed relatively cheap. So using your numbers of ~$250 a case the spread was large. Now that ammo has come back down you are right the spread is much smaller but since I have the equipment I mind as well load.

[GeoffLinder]

Agreed, the biggest factors are the deals you can get on components in bulk and whether or not you have the toolage needed to reload.

If you can't scrounge brass and have to buy 1x brass in bulk the cost factor between reloaded and factory loaded is just about a wash. Get your brass free and you shave about $50-60/1000 off the cost.

The only issue with scrounged brass is the fact that it's of questionable history for the most part and you seldom get one batch/brand. Mixed headstamp brass has the fault of being unuseable for high accuracy reloading due to mfgr. variances that cause internal volume variability and therefore increased velocity spread from round to round.

At local matches you can easily shoot reloads and still recover your brass. At large championship level matches you almost always kiss your brass goodbye and at that point, reloads are costing you about the same as factory fodder.

A favorable cost ratio analysis on reloads versus loaded depends almost entirely on actually recovering the brass for reloading. Easy to accomplish for plinking and club level matches, almost impossible at most large matches IME.

At the last BARC over 12000 .223 cases were left on the ground and scrounged by the club regulars over the next couple days.

My favorite way to get free .223 brass is to collect once-fired cases after LEO departments use the Richmond range on Wednesdays. Not only will it be fresh 1x brass, but it's always one batch WW, Remington or Federal stuff which is exactly what I want in my brass buckets

[GeoffLinder]

BTW, I am basing loaded ammo costs on the typical price-point of Wolff 55/62gr ammo. Usual pricing is $240/1000 and if you buy 5-10k you can get it in the $210-220/1000 range.

Re-loadable top grade .223 is over $350/1000 for the most part nowadays and definitely not as cosrt effective as reloading.

Last few years I have been using Wolff 62gr for all my match shooting on any stages that are short range and only using my own reloads for long distance shooting where I want/need sub-moa performance downrange.

[problemchild]

Does a reloading thread have to break into a cat fight........sheesh!