Need Help with a 30.06 recipe

[kenk4]

Using Speer's manual and a speer 150gr BTSP over 57.5gr IMR 4350 COAL 3.250 with no crimp. Neck tension is between 2 and 2.5 thousandths.

I started at 55 grains and worked all the way to 58.5 grains. I'm having low pressure as indicated by the primer backing out. The primer ceases backing out at 58 grains but the accuracy decreases compared to 57.5 grains. The best grouping I seem to be able to get out of my Weatherby Vangard is 1.5" at 100yrds

I've played with COAL. The original full length dies were Lee and I've tried RCBS with no improvement. Another thing I've noticed is that these bullets seem to pull relevantly easy in my inertia puller but wont budge under thumb pressure. I attribute this to the boat tail design. I'm thinking, perhaps in error, the the forward weighted bullet and the lesser bearing surface in the casing neck would cause these to pull easily. There is no cannelure in with this bullet but it's does not seem to budge under recoil.

I'm thinking of trying Varget for this round as it is a faster burning powder and It's listed in speer's data for this bullet. I'm also considering going to a 165gr bullet. This is for a California Deer load. I'm looking for 1" at 100 yards. I have a .243 that will consistently hold .25" at that same distance with a speer 70gr TNT over 46gr of IMR 4350

[Chief-7700]

Using Speer's manual and a speer 150gr BTSP over 57.5gr IMR 4350 COAL 3.250 with no crimp. Neck tension is between 2 and 2.5 thousandths.

I started at 55 grains and worked all the way to 58.5 grains. I'm having low pressure as indicated by the primer backing out. The primer ceases backing out at 58 grains but the accuracy decreases compared to 57.5 grains. The best grouping I seem to be able to get out of my Weatherby Vangard is 1.5" at 100yrds

I've played with COAL. The original full length dies were Lee and I've tried RCBS with no improvement. Another thing I've noticed is that these bullets seem to pull relevantly easy in my inertia puller but wont budge under thumb pressure. I attribute this to the boat tail design. I'm thinking, perhaps in error, the the forward weighted bullet and the lesser bearing surface in the casing neck would cause these to pull easily. There is no cannelure in with this bullet but it's does not seem to budge under recoil.

I'm thinking of trying Varget for this round as it is a faster burning powder and It's listed in speer's data for this bullet. I'm also considering going to a 165gr bullet. This is for a California Deer load. I'm looking for 1" at 100 yards. I have a .243 that will consistently hold .25" at that same distance with a speer 70gr TNT over 46gr of IMR 4350

From all that I have read and observed over the years. High pressure or overpressure causes the primers to back out.

[CSDGuy]

The Hodgdon site indicates that a start load of 54gr and a max of 58gr should be used. Looks like you're in the ballpark.

For Varget, Hodgdon says start @ 47gr and max at 51gr.

It's entirely possible that your rifle just doesn't like the 150gr bullets you're feeding it. Work some up a load with both powders at the 165gr weight. Maybe that's the problem?

I'm a Garand guy... so I'm a lot more restricted in what powders and weights I can use safely.

And to back-up what Chief-7700 said: Everything I've ever heard about primers is that they start backing out under high pressure, not low pressure.

[FLIGHT762]

My 30/06 Deer load is 57 gr. of IMR-4350 with a Hornady 150 gr. SST. I get 1-1.25 MOA with that load and a few Deer have been taken with that load.
This is not a light load. I never made it to 58+grs. of 4350 because I was getting high pressure signs. It was accurate at 57 gr. and I stopped there.

If you're getting primers backing out, it's NOT from low pressure. There's something else going on there.



Go ahead and try another powder like Varget, but you'll likely get a little less velocity. You should be able to get velocities in the 2800-2900 FPS range. Plenty fast for Deer.

Powders in the 4350 range do well in a bolt action 30/06. Find what shoots accurately in your rifle. Don't worry about squeezing every FPS velocity.

A Deer is not going to know if he got hit with a 2800 FPS bullet or a 3000 FPS bullet, both will work.

[kenk4]

From all that I have read and observed over the years. High pressure or overpressure causes the primers to back out.

I understand, but according to the manuals I have as well as phone calls to Speer and Hodgdon, primers backing out are almost exclusively caused by low pressure or head space issues. The primer initially backs out under it's own pressure caused by it's ignition and is then reseated by the case expanding and re-seating it against the bolt face.

This would be further evidenced by the fact that the problem deminished and went away as the charge was increased. There is no leakage around the primer and the primer is not deformed in anyway other than the mark left by the firing pin. I checked head space on this rifle as well as the loaded rounds and it is well within SAAMI specs. As a side note, even the factory win 150gr rounds experience the primer backing out about .001' - .002"

That being said I am happy to explore other theories so long as they can be explained. I don't pretend to be an expert, this is simply my understanding on the issue.

[kenk4]

The above explanation of primer back out was give to me by one of Hodgdon's techs. This theory is also found in Speer's "Reloading Manual #14" Chapter 5 page 59 4th paragraph.

I typically use data directly from the bullet manufacturer if possible as different bullet designs can give different pressures and almost every manual will give you different starting and max loads.

I load for group size before velocity. Generally speaking I won't shoot over the chronograph until I've first compared groups although this is not always the case.

[Remus]

I once tried to develop a reduced recoil load for my 30-06 using IMR 4895. I was 15 grains below my normal load and observed backed out primers as you described.

[swifty]

Clean the chamber very good.

Don't set the shoulder back.

[kenk4]

Clean the chamber very good.

Don't set the shoulder back.

Yes, that's actually really good advice. Seems like the issue of the primer backing out at lower pressures is do to at least in part, the fact that the ejection rod spring is very hard. This causes the head of the round to not hit the bolt face unless there is a fair amount of pressure.

50.5 grains of Varget made the primer problem go away, however 49.5 grains yielded the best accuracy. Just under .75" 5 shot group at 100 yards. At that loading, the primer backs out .001". I spoke with our local gunsmith/reloading shop. He told me, "if it's not causing you any problems, then let well enough alone." I'm inclined to agree.

[Hoop]

That's weird they'd back out like that. I've shot a lot of lighter pressure loads through my AR's and bolt guns and never run into that problem.