.223 reloading w/ 68 and 75 grain bullets

[sonnyt650]

So I have two uppers, one is a Bushmaster 16" 1-in-9 heavy barrel and the other is a YHM 20" 1-in-7 heavy barrel. Neither one groups 68 or 75 grain bullets at 100 yards, but at least the 16" groups 52 grain bullets with the weak link being my hold. The 20" has been slow getting to the point where it won't FTE so I don't know what it can do well just yet, though I was under the impression that the 75s would do much better than I've been able to do.

How do you guys reload 75 grain bullets for small groups? Are you following the bullet-maker OAL or loading longer than the magazine? Or is it I received a bad barrel for 75 grain bullets?

[XDRoX]

What type of scope are you using?

[sonnyt650]

Old Leupold 3-9x Variax II on the 16" A2 carry handle, Bushnell Banner (?) 3-9x scope on a riser on the 20" flat top until I can afford a quality scope with target turrets. I believe the 20" shoots lighter bullets into a fair group, though I wasn't really paying attention due to the cycling problems. Are heavy bullets more impacted by say free-floating the barrel? That's another upgrade I haven't purchased yet for either rifle.

[huckberry668]

what brand of 68 and 75 grainers are you shooting? sounds like Hornady BTHP and AMax? You should try different brands. I didn't have good luck with Horndy at all with any of my ARs or bolt guns. mine like Sierra, Nosler.

Very rarely and only for accuracy testing, I load them to touching the rifling. Won't fit mag so I hand load each round into chamber. Otherwise all loads are mag length for all my auto loaders.

a few questions from me.

1. What's with your hold?
2. 'fair group'? What kind of accuracy are you capable of shooting? for example, I can shoot .75" average from 5x 5-shot groups at 100 yards with my Armalite 24" upper.
3. what's the trigger pull weight?
4. what kind of stock do you have? telescopic stock won't allow you to rest it well enough for accuracy work.
5. do you have a solid front rest and rear bag?

[sonnyt650]

Yes they're Hornady, the place I bought them (tjconevera) has Hornady as their premier bullets. Both were BTHP because 75 grain AMAX can't be loaded to magazine length. I'm now reconsidering whether I'm going to stick to that considering I built up the 1-in-7 rifle specifically to shoot heavy bullets.

My pulse makes the point of aim jump maybe a half inch which is noticeable with the Leupold fine duplex reticle. Even so I'm able to get below 1" a third of the time whether four shot .308 groups (168 grain AMAX out of a 700 SPS Varmint) or .223 (52 grain Hornady BTHP). The other two thirds the groups bloom out with the worst groups being well under 2", and I'll start tuning my reloads when I iron that out. I do use sandbags both up front and near my shoulder.

Both the ARs have the Bushmaster two stage triggers but I haven't measured the pull, so roughly 3 pounds first stage and 4.5 pounds for the second stage going by the marketing materials. The 20" has the PRS stock though as indicated I haven't put it to the test, but I can live with the 1" groups from the 16" w/telescopic stock. It's the consecutive shots 3" apart with the heavy bullets which bothers me.

[Jon Se]

I'm using your exact bullets (HRN A-Max 75gr, .224 dia) and they're shooting well in my 1:8 Twist Wylde Chambered WOA upper. Consistent .75" groupings off a Bi-pod. I'm using a Bob Sled magazine block and single loading the rounds (BAD lever helps greatly here). Each round is loaded to -.01 off the lands @ 2.43 OAL for my gun with 22.3gr of IMR 4895.

[huckberry668]

Yes they're Hornady, the place I bought them (tjconevera) has Hornady as their premier bullets. Both were BTHP because 75 grain AMAX can't be loaded to magazine length. I'm now reconsidering whether I'm going to stick to that considering I built up the 1-in-7 rifle specifically to shoot heavy bullets.

My pulse makes the point of aim jump maybe a half inch which is noticeable with the Leupold fine duplex reticle. Even so I'm able to get below 1" a third of the time whether four shot .308 groups (168 grain AMAX out of a 700 SPS Varmint) or .223 (52 grain Hornady BTHP). The other two thirds the groups bloom out with the worst groups being well under 2", and I'll start tuning my reloads when I iron that out. I do use sandbags both up front and near my shoulder.

Both the ARs have the Bushmaster two stage triggers but I haven't measured the pull, so roughly 3 pounds first stage and 4.5 pounds for the second stage going by the marketing materials. The 20" has the PRS stock though as indicated I haven't put it to the test, but I can live with the 1" groups from the 16" w/telescopic stock. It's the consecutive shots 3" apart with the heavy bullets which bothers me.

Share a secret with you, I had problems keeping my groups tight for years. I thought it was the gun or the ammo. Turned out to be me. What really helped me was dry firing.

Make sure your gun is empty, set your stick up on bags like you would at the range and dry fire at a target. Breath slow and smooth and time your pulse so the trigger breaks in between. you'll see why your groups aren't as small as you'd like. Do it till the cross hair doesn't move after you break the trigger.

Next try dry firing with your eyes closed. It forces you to pay attention to 'feel' everything else you normally don't feel or don't know you're doing wrong. Open your eyes after trigger breaks and see where the cross hair is. It helps you train and retain correct muscle memory. do this often, and I can guarantee you next time at the range you'll see tighter groups than you ever saw. Best of all, it costs you nothing.

[sonnyt650]

Actually I own up to the fact that it's my fault for the "1 out of 3 isn't bad" shooting, but it's definitely something else for the 68 and 75 grain bullets where there's no way I'm causing that 3 inch bloom. I was hoping somebody else had solved this particular problem, but maybe not. There are still a few things I can try such as loading longer than magazine length where the rear of the bullet is obviously dangling inside the case. As the case neck opens up it may be hitting the lands at a severe angle due to lack of support, or so the theory goes -- we'll see I guess.

[Romanski]

I have a rock river mid length 1:9 barrel and I can keep all shots in the black at 100 yards with iron sights and a 1" group with optics. I use the Hornady FMJ 55 gr. BT projectile with 24gr of Varget in a Win or LC casing and CCI primer. It's been a very consistent load. Do you have a standard, match or aftermarket trigger? The trigger will make a big difference as well!

For your 20" stick FTF problem what is the load recipe you are using? How consistent are you with powder charges?

You can change the OAL to get closer or further from the rifling and that is one thing that you should measure if you are going to go for precision. I use the Hornady OAL guage and it works great.

Last question... do your 68 and 75 gr bullets have connelures? If they do, are you crimping those bullets? If the bullet isn't sitting tight in the casings they can move causing differences in the grouping. You are using heavier bullets and those may be more susceptible to movement. Make up a small batch, note their OAL and go fire a few rounds. Then measure the rest of the bullets in your mag to see if the OAL has changed on them....

Just my .02

[huckberry668]

Actually I own up to the fact that it's my fault for the "1 out of 3 isn't bad" shooting, but it's definitely something else for the 68 and 75 grain bullets where there's no way I'm causing that 3 inch bloom. I was hoping somebody else had solved this particular problem, but maybe not. There are still a few things I can try such as loading longer than magazine length where the rear of the bullet is obviously dangling inside the case. As the case neck opens up it may be hitting the lands at a severe angle due to lack of support, or so the theory goes -- we'll see I guess.

Check the crown. I've seen my share of bad crowns. it'll shoot some bullets ok but others bad.