Lingering Question About Case Sizing/Neck Trimming

[sfonelson]

I want to get into reloading. Calibers that I am going to most likley start with are .223, 30.06, and .308 in the future. Maybe 9mm and 40S&W later on.

I have been doing several days of research on here so far, and on other sites and I still have one question that seems have not been answered clearly. Here are the Dies that I plan on getting. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=983468

In each caliber of course.

So my question is, do you have to trim the neck when you use these dies, or does this die keep the neck size the same when you resize the case?

[BigBronco]

You will need to measure the case length after resizing (Regardless of the die manufacturer.) Then if necessary trim the case.This is only usually only necessary for rifle cartridges. Then chamfer and de-bur the case opening, All brass.. Are you shooting competitively? If not you are spending more on dies than you need to. If competing then you may want to measure and trim the pistol brass. for pistol I never have had to though.

[sfonelson]

You will need to measure the case length after resizing. Then if necessary trim the case. Then chamfer and de-bur the case opening. This is only usually only necessary for rifle cartridges. Are you shooting competitively? If not you are spending more on dies than you need to. If competing then you may want to measure and trim the pistol brass. for pistol I never have had to though.

I am not shooting competitively now, but would like too in the future.

So in the description for the dies on Midway's site, it states, "maintains exact control of the case neck while full length sizing and uses the same interchangeable bushings...".

So you still have to possibly trim the neck? Or there's just the possibility that it will still be off by 1/100ths or so and it needs to be checked?

For plinking, how important is it that the neck size is accurate down to the 1/100ths or whatever? And really, how much of a difference does it make when you are competitive? Are we talking about two inch groups at 100 yards instead of one inch groups?

[rksimple]

You don't need those dies. A standard FL bushing die set from Redding is more than sufficient. Its talking about the diameter of the neck, not the length. The case will grow after multiple firings and resizing. You will still have to trim. Get a case comparator and set up your dies properly to only bump the shoulder a couple thousandths. Get a the bushings necessary to give you .002-.003" of neck tension.

[Boots]

I am not shooting competitively now, but would like too in the future.

So in the description for the dies on Midway's site, it states, "maintains exact control of the case neck while full length sizing and uses the same interchangeable bushings...".

So you still have to possibly trim the neck? Or there's just the possibility that it will still be off by 1/100ths or so and it needs to be checked?

For plinking, how important is it that the neck size is accurate down to the 1/100ths or whatever? And really, how much of a difference does it make when you are competitive? Are we talking about two inch groups at 100 yards instead of one inch groups?

Regardless of competition or just plinking... you will need to measure and trim your case necks when it comes to rifle (necked) brass. The shell expands when it is fired and if you let it go beyond acceptable limits you will find yourself in an dangerous situation... because if the shell gets too long, bullet will get crimped into the shell when the shell is literally pushed into the rifling of the barrel and possible head space issues.

[sfonelson]

You don't need those dies. A standard FL bushing die set from Redding is more than sufficient. Its talking about the diameter of the neck, not the length. The case will grow after multiple firings and resizing. You will still have to trim. Get a case comparator and set up your dies properly to only bump the shoulder a couple thousandths. Get a the bushings necessary to give you .002-.003" of neck tension.

So is this what you are talking about? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=592925

If I read this correctly, the first die is a full length sizer, the second die is a bullet seater + neck crimper?

[ar15barrels]

So is this what you are talking about? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=592925

If I read this correctly, the first die is a full length sizer, the second die is a bullet seater + neck crimper?

That's just a standard 2 die set which would probably work fine.
It just does not give you the option (or the need) to run neck bushings like this set would:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=248565

It also has a standard seater die instead of a benchrest seater die.
For ultimate accuracy, the benchrest seater makes more difference than the bushing vs. standard sizer.

[sfonelson]

That's just a standard 2 die set which would probably work fine.
It just does not give you the option (or the need) to run neck bushings like this set would:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=248565

It also has a standard seater die instead of a benchrest seater die.
For ultimate accuracy, the benchrest seater makes more difference than the bushing vs. standard sizer.

Well, what would you guys personally recommend? I would rather "Buy once, Cry once" instead of buying, then upgrading down the road and spending more money on something i should have just purchased in the first place.

[Boots]

Knowing what I know now, I would go with what AR15barrells mentioned / kinked above.
My future die purchases will be bushing style and competition seating die. I like how the Redding die keeps the bullet aligned... with less run-out than other designs.

[xrMike]

I just made a batch of .223 with some new dies -- the standard Redding FL sizer die (not the bushing type), and the Redding competition seating die, per Randall's recommendation.

I'm interested to see if my accuracy improves any, although it will be hard to tell since I'm shooting irons only.

Up 'til now I've been using Lee RGB dies up and getting excellent results from those. Pretty consistent 1MOA at 100 yards, with a few targets even better... I think it will be hard to shoot tighter than that without an optic.

[Boots]

I just made a batch of .223 with some new dies -- the standard Redding FL sizer die (not the bushing type), and the Redding competition seating die, per Randall's recommendation.

I'm interested to see if my accuracy improves any, although it will be hard to tell since I'm shooting irons only.

Up 'til now I've been using Lee RGB dies up and getting excellent results from those. Pretty consistent 1MOA at 100 yards, with a few targets even better... I think it will be hard to shoot tighter than that without an optic.

Not bad for iron sights!
The best I've done was a 3/8" spacing of 4 shot group @ 100 yards with Hornady 55gr match ammo.. and that's with a 3-12X 42 obj Nikon Monarch scope on a AR-15.

I'm curious to see what my handloaded 60 gr Hornady's will improve. But back to topic, from a comparison video of the Hornady and Redding competition setting dies... the Redding had much less run-out, thus I would assume a bullet that comes out and flies straighter than a mass produced round. So I don't doubt an improvement there... but there are so many variables that can effect that. (iron sights, tempurature, wind, too much coffee, etc.)

[killshot44]

Well, what would you guys personally recommend? I would rather "Buy once, Cry once" instead of buying, then upgrading down the road and spending more money on something i should have just purchased in the first place.

Get the Redding Die set AR15Barrels linked. I use them - they are excellent.
They give you the ability to make fine, repeatable adjustments for sizing and seating.
With the Bushing dies, you can adjust neck tension properly while also full-length sizing. I never need to crimp.
The Competition Seater allows settings down to .001 and allows you to easily adjust for ogive variances (I'm lookin' at you, SMK 69s.......)