357 Mag and 38 Special Recipes.

[gregorylucas]

I am looking to reload two types of rounds:

One is a 357 Mag for indoor range shooting up to 25 yards, the other is a 38 Special for home defense. I have TiteGroup powder I was looking for bullet recommendations for these purposes-the choices on these bullets are confusing me.

Also can somebody school me on the difference between the 38 Special and 357 Mag Bullets. I was under the impression that they were the same diameter-so whats the deal?

Thanks,
Greg

[Triple R Munitions]

3.8gr of TITE w/ 158gr 38spl
4.8gr of TIT w/ 158gr 357mag

both great loads to shoot.

R

[gregorylucas]

3.8gr of TITE w/ 158gr 38spl
4.8gr of TIT w/ 158gr 357mag

both great loads to shoot.

R

Any suggestions on bullet types, HP, FMJ, SWC?

1lb of Tite is gonna do ALOT of pistol cart's!

Thanks,
Greg

[ireload]

I cannot give you a recipe for Titegroup since I do not use it nor my somewhat "dated" manual list it.

But as far as bullet diameter goes both .38 and .357 are .357" in diameter (jacketed and plated). When you venture into cast bullet then it's .358"

[Revoman]

I would think that you have the purposes backwards, 357 would be a better choice for HD and 38 would be better for target shooting at 25 yards.

Also, it sounds like you may have some experience in reloading, but by the question that you asked about the 38 v 357, it seems that you may need a little more schooling in handgun reloading.

No reflection on your abilities, just an observation. I hope I'm wrong.

I would recommend that you thoroughly read up on straight case loading before attempting to load especially the 357. It's rowdy enough if you load it correctly, let alone not.

[gregorylucas]

I would think that you have the purposes backwards, 357 would be a better choice for HD and 38 would be better for target shooting at 25 yards.

Also, it sounds like you may have some experience in reloading, but by the question that you asked about the 38 v 357, it seems that you may need a little more schooling in handgun reloading.

No reflection on your abilities, just an observation. I hope I'm wrong.

I would recommend that you thoroughly read up on straight case loading before attempting to load especially the 357. It's rowdy enough if you load it correctly, let alone not.

Well for starters I was concerned about the penetration of the 357 for HD, that's why I always chose .38. So I would welcome any suggestions.

The reason I ask the question about the bullets is because I've been doing my reading from a few manuals that I have that state the bullets are slightly different in hardness and that shooting 38 out of 357 can prematurely disintegrate the bullet due to pressure.

Well my reloading experience is in rifle reloading...and that's why I posted this because I need some schooling. No reason to hope to be wrong, I'm always the type to bug the snot out of people before I begin to make sure I'm doing things the right way and usually (like most folks) I make some mistakes along the way but I don’t end up killing myself =). As long as the conversation remains friendly it's all good.

-Greg

[Triple R Munitions]

for projectile styles anything would work. as long as you stay with that correct weight. the only problems you will encounter (if any) is using jacketed. i load mostly plated (pretty close to lead) and the jacketed projo may need more powder to get the same result as the plated. ....thats where testing comes in! good luck!

for HD ammo....i would not make any. i would buy it. are you willing to depend your life on your ammo ? or a company that has made it their goal to make the best HD ammo out there?

my .02

R

[Cowboy T]

Here's the deal with .38 Spl and .357 Mag. I reload and shoot a whole lot of each (thousands) in a year.

The .357 Magnum cartridge is simply a slightly longer version of the .38 Special cartridge. Kinda like a BMW 740i vs. the 740iL. The original "Magnum" load was actually developed in a .38 Spl case by Elmer Keith back in the early 1930's. S&W decided to lengthen the case just a little to prevent these new He-Man loads (the resulting new cartridge now officially called ".357 Magnum") from getting chambered in weaker guns than the S&W .38-44 that Mr. Keith used to develop it. The .44 Magnum has the exact same kind of relationship to the .44 Special cartridge, and the .454 Casull to the .45 Long Colt.

I actually do load ".357 Magnum" style loads in .38 Spl cases, like Mr. Keith did. But I mark them, and furthermore, all of my ".38 caliber" revolvers are in fact .357 Magnum firearms anyway (e. g. Ruger Security-Six), so they're certainly strong enough. I also make a "powder-puff" .38 Special load for the g/f. She loves it. She fires it in her .357 Magnum all the time now.

Both cartridges are the same caliber (0.357"). Yes, I know, one's called .38 and the other .357. The .38 Spl is so named for historical reasons involving something called "heeled" bullets, from way, way back. Remember that the cartridge was introduced in 1900 (some say 1902, but the first S&W .38 Spl revolver is actually dated 1900, per Roy Jinks). That's one reason why you can safely fire .38 Specials out of .357 Magnum firearms.

Both are very effective manstoppers when loaded properly. However, .357 Magnum will DEFINITELY get you overpenetration unless you use fairly rapid-expanding hollowpoints. JSP's won't do it; they'll blow right through the bad guy. You don't want that.

In my case, I use factory .38 Spl +P hollowpoints from Remington and Winchester for HD. All of my practice "range fodder", I reload myself. If you're thinking of rolling your own HD rounds, you might look into some of Lyman's "Devastator" moulds and cast some bullets out of fairly soft alloy, like BHN 8 or so. For this application, soft lead is very good. You want it to expand well at handgun velocities. Or just buy factory HP ammo.

You will love the .38/357. It's probably my favorite pair of cartridges, both to reload and to shoot.

Now, as to your search for recipes, Titegroup is a very versatile powder. For me, it is The Powder for .45 Long Colt and does really well in .38 Special, too. It will serve admirably for medium-power .357 Magnum loads as well. I strongly suggest you pick up Lyman's 49th Edition reloading book. They've got some great recipe information in there, complete with pressure info, history of the cartridge, and such.

[gregorylucas]

Thanks cowboy T. That clears up alot of the confusion.

-Greg

[darkwater]

Despite this interchangeability, the only other thing I've seen that you have to watch out for is some bullets are not designed for magnum velocities, but they usually tell you that on the label.

[Cowboy T]

That's an important point. And it's true no matter which case you put your load in, be it the .38 Spl. case or the .357M case.

The pressure is really what determines whether a load is "Magnum" level or not. Full-house .357 Magnum loads are typically around 34,000 PSI. My .357 Magnum load is about 27,000 PSI, as is my ".45 Colt Magnum" load. For these, I use a harder alloy to cast my boolit, about BHN 15-16. By contrast, I also have light loads for both .38 Special and .45 Colt. Both of these have pressures of maybe 13,000 PSI. For these loads, I use straight wheel weights, about BHN 11. And at those pressures, slightly softer would actually be a bit more optimal, maybe BHN 9.

So, yes, bullet strength matters. It's entirely dependent on the pressure of your load. Again, this is regardless of the type of case you're using.

Here's an example. I've done soft-ish loads in .357M cases, too. They feel like .38 Spl +P. Why'd I do this with a He-Man cartridge like .357M? Two reasons.

1.) At the time, all I had were .357M cases, and I wanted something light to shoot out of the Security-Six. That has now changed, so I just go ahead and use .38 Spl cases for my lighter loads now.

2.) I had a bunch of 158gr cast bullets (bought) that were BHN 12-13. That's dead-on perfect for .38 Spl +P-style pressures.

Turns out that load leaves my cases so clean that I actually don't have to tumble them. Yes, *that* clean. I was amazed. It's really a nice little load to do target practice with.