Issues with Titegroup powder?

[MossbergMan]

Anyone else having over pressure issues using published loads for Hodgens Titegroup powder.
I loaded up some 115 gr FMJ 9mm 1.125 OAL using 4.5 (recommended starting weight) and some with 4.7 gr. (4.8 is listed max.) I am getting primer blow back, flattened primers, defaced case markings and I think a couple of pierced primers (this only because I cleaned my firing pin channel and two discs were driven out ahead of the firing pin).
This all started when I had FTF in my Springfield 9mm EMP. Approximately 50% failure to fire rate. I took the suspect ammo to another Springfield 9mm 1911 (full size) and experienced the same thing. I detail stripped the slides of both guns, just to make sure the firing pin channel was clear and my FP wasn't broken (weirder things have happened) or worn down. When I tried to remove the pin from the full size 1911, the FP wouldn't budge. I punched it out with a 3/32" punch and found a lot of semi-circular debris and two discs, the exact size of the FP hole on my cleaning mat. The primers used are Fiocchi.

So anyone else have a story like this using Titegroup? I'm starting to suspect either the powder changed or their testing or printing is flawed.

[Low-Pressure]

I start at 4.0 and max at 4.5 for 115 gr. and I haven't had problems shooting them on my G34. Try loading 4.0 as a starting point. Good Luck

[Low-Pressure]

BTW on their website it says:
115 GR. LRN start 3.9 max 4.3
115 GR. SPR GDHP start 4.5 max 4.8

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[Chief-7700]

Lyman's 49th Edition:
115 Grain JHP start 4.0 max 4.5 using Titegroup
OAL 1.090"
The above shows a very narrow window between start and max loads.
I would switch to Bullseye or 231 since there is a wider spread between start and max.

[Triple R Munitions]

4.2gr with a 115gr RN @1.150 will give you 1100 FPS out of a 92fs....this is one of the std loads I use. cant go wrong.

4.5 is my max.....

titegroup is a great powder...i would not overlook it.... 231 is great...but the availability is poor....

R

[Cowboy T]

I haven't tried it in 9mm, but I have done so in .38 Spl and .45 Colt, admittedly larger cases. It's a great powder in those rounds. A buddy who shoots .45 ACP uses 4.8gr Titegroup under a 200gr LRNFP (wheel weight lead) with excellent results in his 1911.

[buffybuster]

Anyone else having over pressure issues using published loads for Hodgens Titegroup powder.
I loaded up some 115 gr FMJ 9mm 1.125 OAL using 4.5 (recommended starting weight) and some with 4.7 gr. (4.8 is listed max.) I am getting primer blow back, flattened primers, defaced case markings and I think a couple of pierced primers (this only because I cleaned my firing pin channel and two discs were driven out ahead of the firing pin).
This all started when I had FTF in my Springfield 9mm EMP. Approximately 50% failure to fire rate. I took the suspect ammo to another Springfield 9mm 1911 (full size) and experienced the same thing. I detail stripped the slides of both guns, just to make sure the firing pin channel was clear and my FP wasn't broken (weirder things have happened) or worn down. When I tried to remove the pin from the full size 1911, the FP wouldn't budge. I punched it out with a 3/32" punch and found a lot of semi-circular debris and two discs, the exact size of the FP hole on my cleaning mat. The primers used are Fiocchi.

So anyone else have a story like this using Titegroup? I'm starting to suspect either the powder changed or their testing or printing is flawed.

Does your 1911 have a titanium firing pin or a extra power FP spring?

[Table Rock Arms]

Last week, I chrono'd some 115gr FMJ's with 4.2gr of Titegroup OAL of 1.130 and was averaging 1125 fps out of my glock 17. As fast as Titigroup is, if I were to run them at 4.7, I would be suprised if I didn't have problems.

[MossbergMan]

I know Springfield uses a stronger FP spring so they can pass "drop tests" without a FP block (ala series 80 and Kimbers). There is no after market parts installed. But the FP spring I'm pretty sure is not causing the primer cup debris to flow back into the FP hole and channel. But I do learn new things every day.

Speaking with a couple of local shooters that use Titegroup yielded simular results. Common published loads in the 4.5 to 4.8 caused pressure problems. I shot the Western States Single Stack match and chrono'd a load of 4.2 gr. with a 115 FMJ 1.110 OAL @ 1,135fps for a comfortable 130 PF.

After looking at some more collected brass I see my 4.5 and 4.7 gr loads all flattened primers, to the point it almost doesn't look fired. I saw this alot in the early days of IPSC with .38 super loads making a major power factor of 175. Primer back flow was not unusual back in the day.

Thanks for the input all. I am down loading to 3.9 and seeing how that works. I need an accurate load that makes a minor 125 PF. Once I get my Chrono back....I will be able to tell a lot more definitively whats what.

[buffybuster]

I know Springfield uses a stronger FP spring so they can pass "drop tests" without a FP block (ala series 80 and Kimbers). There is no after market parts installed. But the FP spring I'm pretty sure is not causing the primer cup debris to flow back into the FP hole and channel. But I do learn new things every day.

Speaking with a couple of local shooters that use Titegroup yielded simular results. Common published loads in the 4.5 to 4.8 caused pressure problems. I shot the Western States Single Stack match and chrono'd a load of 4.2 gr. with a 115 FMJ 1.110 OAL @ 1,135fps for a comfortable 130 PF.

After looking at some more collected brass I see my 4.5 and 4.7 gr loads all flattened primers, to the point it almost doesn't look fired. I saw this alot in the early days of IPSC with .38 super loads making a major power factor of 175. Primer back flow was not unusual back in the day.

Thanks for the input all. I am down loading to 3.9 and seeing how that works. I need an accurate load that makes a minor 125 PF. Once I get my Chrono back....I will be able to tell a lot more definitively whats what.

That's where you're probably wrong. A titanium FP and an extra power FP spring (Springfield uses both to make the pistol "drop safe") is a recipe for pierced primers/primer flow/primer wipe. Try a STEEL FP (Springfield uses their own FP diameter) and a standard power FP spring. I'll bet that will take care of your primer flow issues.

[Johan]

I've fired 1000's of rounds that are loaded with 115g FMJ, 4.2g of TG at 1.125 through my sig226 with not one issue yet. I usually don't go past 15 yards so I can't say what they do after that.

Working on pushing 147G FMJ now, so far so good. This batch I'm using 3.3g of TG.