loading .44 Spl?

[savasyn]

I've been loading various pistol rounds for about 6 months now and have a decent feel for making basic target loads that group nicely. I'm about to start loading .44 Spl and looking at the data has sparked my curiosity so I have a couple of questions.

Based on the data that I've looked at(Hodgdon website, Lee and Lyman manuals) no one loads .44 Spl higher than 14,000 CUP. The Lyman manual says that this was because of older, weaker guns but that with modern guns can be loaded higher. Looks like .44 Mag can be loaded up to about 40,000 CUP and that is a huge difference!

I personally don't have any need to over crank the loads nor any plans to do so, but I'm curious how high one could take the .44 Spl case if they were only going to be fired from a .44 Mag firearm or at least a good, sturdy .44 Spl.

I obviously haven't done any real research on the trail blazed by Mr. Keith in the journey to create the .44 Mag, but from the little I have read, it sounds like he was pushing the Spl pretty hard.

To restate what I said above, this is all about answering a curiosity and not because I want to go do it. I have a .44 Mag so I can get all my high power needs filled there with plain old factory Mag loadings.

[huckberry668]

I would recommend not to load beyond the published load data. downloading 44Mag is much safer than uploading 44spl.

With that said, theoretically 1 method used to find the safe and higher pressure load is to read the pressure signs. you can 'work up' loads by increasing the charge slightly (0.2 grains for example) each time using the same components (powder, primer, bullet, same condition brass) till you see pressure signs.

Common pressure signs include but not limited to:
1. flattened primer.
2. Pierced primer.
3. difficulty in extraction
4. gas leak around primer.
5. case bulge
6. split case mouth or cracked case

Stop shooting when you see any of these signs.

I'm sure others will add to this list. Again, I'd recommend against loading up beyond the published data for any caliber.

[nn3453]

I would recommend not to load beyond the published load data. downloading 44Mag is much safer than uploading 44spl.

Yep. Same deal with 38 and 357.

OP, is there a specific reason you want to upload your 44sp? Just curiosity? Trying to get the most out of the caliber?

I prefer downloading 357 to knock down steel when regular 38 is not enough than the other way around.

[savasyn]

I guess you guys missed both of the times that I said that I had no intention of doing it or was even interested in trying it, but that I was only asking out of curiosity about how far you can actually go with a sturdy enough gun.

As you mentioned .38 vs .357, there's plenty of data for .38 +P that gets fairly hot. Heck, my little 640 J frame is rated for +P+ which has to be insane to shoot from that gun. I have yet to come across .44 Spl +P data but given the huge gap between .44 Spl data and .44 Mag data, it would seem that the Spl could, if one desired, be loaded a good bit hotter.

[savasyn]

Doing a little poking around, I found this. It doesn't talk pressures, but it does mention powder and FPS:

From late 1929, with his article in the The American Rifleman entitled "The Last Word," until 1955, Keith promoted the .44 Special as the ideal sixgun cartridge when used with his "Keith" bullet, Lyman's #429421. This bullet, a semi-wadcutter weighing 250 grains, was pushed at 1,100 fps using #80 powder and then, when it became available, with Hercules #2400 for a full 1,200 fps.

That's nearly a 1/3 faster than standard loading and certainly in the low ranges of magnum performance. Impressive.

[huckberry668]

I guess you guys missed both of the times that I said that I had no intention of doing it or was even interested in trying it, but that I was only asking out of curiosity about how far you can actually go with a sturdy enough gun.

I didn't miss it. Since I'm putting the 'how' out there for everyone to read I needed to include a disclaimer and recommend good practices.

[Fjold]

People have been hot loading the modern 44 spl and 45 long colts for 60-70 years.

The modern 44 special guns are made of the same steel as the modern 44 magnum guns.

[earchivist]

Good luck with your 44 loads! I'm busy putting up a bunch of 44 loads right now myself. I was reading a article recently about old Elmer Keith's loads. They presure tested his 250gr Keith bullet first with the old balloon head cases, and then with current solid head cases. The ballon head cases were coming back around 26,000 psi, and the solid head cases were around 25,000 psi. Taffin also has a lot to say about loading for the 44. If you have a very old copy of Gun Digest from about 1978 they have a article about the Charter Arms Bulldog. They tried Skeeters load of 7.5gr of Unique with a Keith bullet with no ill effects. But your mileage may vary! So which 44 are you loading for? I am loading for a Charter Arms Bulldog, and a Dan Wesson in 44 Magnum. Let us know how things turn out.

[Californio]

I have one .44 spl gun, but it weighs the same as a my .44 mag guns. I will probably sell the .44 spl and just use .44 mag cases loaded to .44 spl for target and HD loads and .44 mag for hunting, best of both worlds.

[savasyn]

Good luck with your 44 loads! I'm busy putting up a bunch of 44 loads right now myself. I was reading a article recently about old Elmer Keith's loads. They presure tested his 250gr Keith bullet first with the old balloon head cases, and then with current solid head cases. The ballon head cases were coming back around 26,000 psi, and the solid head cases were around 25,000 psi. Taffin also has a lot to say about loading for the 44. If you have a very old copy of Gun Digest from about 1978 they have a article about the Charter Arms Bulldog. They tried Skeeters load of 7.5gr of Unique with a Keith bullet with no ill effects. But your mileage may vary! So which 44 are you loading for? I am loading for a Charter Arms Bulldog, and a Dan Wesson in 44 Magnum. Let us know how things turn out.

Thanks for the info! That's the kind of stuff I was looking for.
I'll be loading for a Bulldog as well(new one) in addition to an S&W 21 and an S&W 629. My 629 is a 3" so even standard off the shelf .44 Mags feel pretty brutal to me. I'll definitely be down-loading for it. While the 21 could probably handle uploaded Spl loads, I won't be trying it to find out.

How is your Bulldog holding up? I've only put about 100 range reloads and 10 200gr Speer Gold Dots through mine so far. I've read varying reports on whether they hold up to regular shooting or not, especially with spicier loads.

I was planning on shooting often enough with powder-puff rounds to stay used to the feel as well as break in the action but keep it loaded with the Gold Dots for any occasions it would be needed for HD.

[savasyn]

I have one .44 spl gun, but it weighs the same as a my .44 mag guns. I will probably sell the .44 spl and just use .44 mag cases loaded to .44 spl for target and HD loads and .44 mag for hunting, best of both worlds.

That is the .38Spl/.357Mag-.44Spl/.44Mag advantage! you get to shoot such a wide range of power options.

What .44 Spl gun are you considering selling?

[Californio]

That is the .38Spl/.357Mag-.44Spl/.44Mag advantage! you get to shoot such a wide range of power options.

What .44 Spl gun are you considering selling?

S&W 624 3"

[cali-man]

Hmm. I too am interested in some 44 special loads. I would be shooting them out of a S&W 696.

[earchivist]

Savasyn,

You should look up that copy of Gun Digest. The article also mentioned a lot about loading for the Bulldog. Most of the load info was defintely on the warm side. I guess the author was made of sterner stuff than me!

I got my Bulldog back in the mid 80's. Recoil was unpleasant so I acquired a set of Pachmayr Presentation grips for it. That really helped me deal with recoil. Mine is setup for HD. I recently discovered that LaserLyte makes a bolt on accessory rail for the Bulldog. So mine now wears that and a TLR3-3 Streamlite. Although in a recent range session the TLR-3 sailed off my gun into the middle of the range after the third round fired. Need to see what can be done to keep that flashlight in place.

Can't really tell you how durable it is. I really don't shoot it very often. I have a few other revolvers and pistols. So the Bulldog while it may be my nightstand gun hasn't been to the range very often. I can tell you that on my gun the screws start to back out after shooting a box or so of ammo. I don't think I've past the thousand round mark yet on my gun. Although I think I maybe very close.

Currently I am putting together 9 different loads with 3 different powders. I've decided to see how a local bullet makers 240gr SWC does in my Bulldog. I'm going to try 3 different HS-6, 4 Unique, and 2 Power Pistol charges. At 20 test rounds per loading I think I'll have a nice range session in store! Too bad a friend shot my Chrony! I think it would be good to see what kind of velocity these loads generate!

[savasyn]

Cool man, I'll see if I can find anything about that article online.
Good luck with all your test, hope you get something you like!
If you have time, please post a picture of you Bulldog, I don't think I've seen an older one like that.
Thanks!

Savasyn,

You should look up that copy of Gun Digest. The article also mentioned a lot about loading for the Bulldog. Most of the load info was defintely on the warm side. I guess the author was made of sterner stuff than me!

I got my Bulldog back in the mid 80's. Recoil was unpleasant so I acquired a set of Pachmayr Presentation grips for it. That really helped me deal with recoil. Mine is setup for HD. I recently discovered that LaserLyte makes a bolt on accessory rail for the Bulldog. So mine now wears that and a TLR3-3 Streamlite. Although in a recent range session the TLR-3 sailed off my gun into the middle of the range after the third round fired. Need to see what can be done to keep that flashlight in place.

Can't really tell you how durable it is. I really don't shoot it very often. I have a few other revolvers and pistols. So the Bulldog while it may be my nightstand gun hasn't been to the range very often. I can tell you that on my gun the screws start to back out after shooting a box or so of ammo. I don't think I've past the thousand round mark yet on my gun. Although I think I maybe very close.

Currently I am putting together 9 different loads with 3 different powders. I've decided to see how a local bullet makers 240gr SWC does in my Bulldog. I'm going to try 3 different HS-6, 4 Unique, and 2 Power Pistol charges. At 20 test rounds per loading I think I'll have a nice range session in store! Too bad a friend shot my Chrony! I think it would be good to see what kind of velocity these loads generate!