last few questions before I start reloading

[jr916]

First, how different are IMR4895 and H-4895, and is there a conversion ratio to use when the recipe calls for one and you have the other?

Second, my Lee Classic Loader (for 7.62x54R) is meant for .308" bullets... but I'm reloading .310" bullets (and later .311"): do I need to buy a .310" and .311" expander to seat these bullets? If I seat .310" Hornadys with my kit meant for .308", will I have excessive pressure issues?

Third, if I find recipes for .308" bullets (same caliber/powder obviously), can I use the recipe or tweak the powder charge slightly and seat my slightly larger-diameter bullets?

Lastly, I shot some Winchester ammo today so I can use the brass to reload. Do I need to clean the used brass before reloading it (if yes, what are common methods)?

Thanks for your help, my materials should all be here on Monday so I'll be getting started then hopefully!

[ChrisXD45T]

First, how different are IMR4895 and H-4895, and is there a conversion ratio to use when the recipe calls for one and you have the other?

They're the same. Always start with 10% below max and work up.

Second, my Lee Classic Loader (for 7.62x54R) is meant for .308" bullets... but I'm reloading .310" bullets (and later .311"): do I need to buy a .310" and .311" expander to seat these bullets? If I seat .310" Hornadys with my kit meant for .308", will I have excessive pressure issues?

Should not be a problem. Pressure problems usually come from too much powder or seating a bullet too deep. You don't want the bullet to be too lose in the neck of the case. Anyway, if it's a boat tail bullet it will go in no problem, the brass will stretch.

Third, if I find recipes for .308" bullets (same caliber/powder obviously), can I use the recipe or tweak the powder charge slightly and seat my slightly larger-diameter bullets?

I assume you mean 7.62x54R loads that call for .308 diameter projectiles; this should be fine. The rifle was made for .311-.312 projectiles. Some data calls for .308 because it is cheaper and more importantly more common to find than .311.

Lastly, I shot some Winchester ammo today so I can use the brass to reload. Do I need to clean the used brass before reloading it (if yes, what are common methods)?

Cleaning is over-rated and mostly cosmetic. If it's brass you shot and not something you found in the dirt somewhere it will be fine. If after a while it gets really ugly get yourself a tumbler and some crushed walnut or corncob from the pet store (the media reloading companies sell is the same stuff, it just cost more).

[Fjold]

1. IMR 4895 and H4895 are not the same! You cannot interchange their data!

The differences in maximum charge rates for cartridges like the 308 can run 2-3 grains (5% or more)


2. You might be able to use the .308 expander but I doubt that it will expand the neck enough to seat the bullets. More concern is the dies are set up for a 308 bullet which means that the neck of your cases are going to be worked excessively every time that they are re-sized and they will crack after a couple of reloads. You really should find a set of dies set up for .310 - .312 bullets.

3. In the same case the loads for the .310 -.312 bullets will actually be a little lower in pressure so it would be safe to use the same charges as the .308 bullet loads, if everything else is equal.

4. I only clean brass about every 5 reloads or so.

[jr916]

Thanks, Fjold, so is it safe to say that if I used 5% less IMR than the Hodgins (sp?), while still sticking to the additional "start 10% lower and go up" rule, that I'd be safe? Would using a 6-7% be a better idea? I'm generally not gonna be loading very hot... my goal is to first make a bunch of plinking rounds with my .310" 123gr bullets and lighter powder charges.

How do I get a set of dies in .311"? I don't think they exist for this caliber, as they make them at .308" standard. I could be wrong, and I'll definitely get the larger .311" size dies when I buy my first press, however for now with this cheap Lee Loader I think I'll be able to manage. Most people seem to think the small difference won't make it hard to seat the larger bullets (especially if they're boat tail... except that my Hornady's are FB). I'll just pray that it I'm able to seat my Hornadys tomorrow!

[pdq_wizzard]

STOP don't reload!!!

Thanks, Fjold, so is it safe to say that if I used 5% less IMR than the Hodgins (sp?), while still sticking to the additional "start 10% lower and go up" rule, that I'd be safe? Would using a 6-7% be a better idea? I'm generally not gonna be loading very hot... my goal is to first make a bunch of plinking rounds with my .310" 123gr bullets and lighter powder charges.

How do I get a set of dies in .311"? I don't think they exist for this caliber, as they make them at .308" standard. I could be wrong, and I'll definitely get the larger .311" size dies when I buy my first press, however for now with this cheap Lee Loader I think I'll be able to manage. Most people seem to think the small difference won't make it hard to seat the larger bullets (especially if they're boat tail... except that my Hornady's are FB). I'll just pray that it I'm able to seat my Hornadys tomorrow!

I can't stress this enough, if you are new to reloading use only what is in the manual!! do not substitute powders!! use at least 2 def manuals and buy the ABC's of reloading and read it twice.

[Fjold]

You can work outside the printed data from the manuals if you are experienced in reading pressure signs. I usually don't reommend it for newer reloaders. I have guns that are not safe to load at the reloading manual posted maximum charges because the chamber and components combinations that I use combine to make excessive pressure.

I always advise starting at the 10% below max load as recommended above but for some reason most reloading data for the 7.62x54 uses the .308 caliber bullets and www.hodgdon.com doesn't list any loads for IMR4895 at all.

Their starting loads for H4895 are only about 5%-8% under their max loads and for 308 Win loads Hodgon recommends a higher starting load for IMR4895 (usually about 1-2 grains) than for H4895.


JMHO
If I had to use IMR4895 I would probably use the starting load data for H4895 which should give you a 8%-10% below max load for the 7.62x54 and work up slowly from there.

[jr916]

I don't have to use IMR as I haven't bought it yet, but was told it was a good choice (and it's hotter so I figured less powder per round equals more rounds per $). Now I'm thinking I may want to get one that is more commonly in reloading recipes (like on hodgdon.com), and the shop I'm going to tomorrow has over 300 powders (so he claims) so I'm thinking maybe Varget?

Don't have a cow pdq_wizzard, I'm not doing any reloading yet, that's why I'm on here to ask questions and make sure I'm being safe. Thanks for your advice, though. It's good to know that I shouldn't experiment with substituting powders until I'm more experienced, however at some point I do want to get a deeper understanding of reloading than just copying recipes from powder companies.

It's also good to know that I can follow the recipes for .308" bullets and seat .310" ones (as pressure should be slightly less even). This is OK in your, book, yes?

In all this, I'm not doing anything before I both get the go-ahead from experienced reloaders on here AND get confirmation that what I'm doing is correct from literature on the subject (the gun shop ordered a Lee? reloading guide for me to pick up tomorrow too). Don't be alarmed, I realize how dangerous and serious reloading is, and am treating this project with the appropriate respect and caution.

[pdq_wizzard]

Jr916, I'm not having a cow, just want to make sure you are safe and the person next to you, hell it could be me

Have fun and be safe

[jr916]

Don't worry, I'm trying to be as safe and cautious as possible. I'm on here getting the OK from more experienced guys for a reason! I wasn't trying to be rude at all, thanks for the advice and concern (I don't want a bolt in my face or hot gases or brass shrapnel in my eyes either). As a general rule, I'm reloading minimum charges just b/c it saves powder AND I want plinking rounds that I can shoot dozens of without getting sore. (I brought 100 rds last time... I have a tiny bruise today!)

So is Varget a better bet b/c of it's popularity in recipes? And is there s consensus that using .310" bullets with .308" recipes will be OK since it will even reduce the pressure slightly?

[RobG]

Don't worry, I'm trying to be as safe and cautious as possible. I'm on here getting the OK from more experienced guys for a reason! I wasn't trying to be rude at all, thanks for the advice and concern (I don't want a bolt in my face or hot gases or brass shrapnel in my eyes either). As a general rule, I'm reloading minimum charges just b/c it saves powder AND I want plinking rounds that I can shoot dozens of without getting sore. (I brought 100 rds last time... I have a tiny bruise today!)

So is Varget a better bet b/c of it's popularity in recipes? And is there s consensus that using .310" bullets with .308" recipes will be OK since it will even reduce the pressure slightly?

Since you are new, stick to the book 100% until you are experienced enough to venture out on your own. What one guy loads means nothing to the next guy.

[jr916]

I'd love to stick to the book 100%, however shooting .308" bullets out of my Mosin Nagant will most likely produce a nice shotgun pattern at 50 yards. Nearly every person I've talked to or heard of reloading for this rifle uses bullets larger than .308", even the owner of the reloading store told me I needed to use .310" at least, and was suggesting the .311" bullets meant for .303Brit/7.7Jap for better accuracy.

[gunboat]

I go with Chris XD -- keep it simple, no need for all the drama -

[RobG]

I'd love to stick to the book 100%, however shooting .308" bullets out of my Mosin Nagant will most likely produce a nice shotgun pattern at 50 yards. Nearly every person I've talked to or heard of reloading for this rifle uses bullets larger than .308", even the owner of the reloading store told me I needed to use .310" at least, and was suggesting the .311" bullets meant for .303Brit/7.7Jap for better accuracy.

Have you tried to find a Mosin forum or the like? That would be a safer bet than stuffing undersized bullets down the bore with an unknown charge.

[jr916]

I haven't joined any, but have surveyed many Mosin forums and found many people using .310" bullets and .311", and found that most Russian Mosins shoot those diameters well, however I'm slugging my barrel to be 100% sure, so I'm not concerned that I'm using the wrong size bullet, just whether I'll be able to seat it with the kit I bought.

[LGB Loader]

Jr,

I think it's wise to do as much homework as you can before you start and it looks like your doing that. Well played.

I see alot of concern from the folks here on this thread and it is a good thing. Some of the things suggested may or may not be 100% what I would do but if you go by the manual, and you follow the recipes, you will not have any problems.
I do have an issue with neck sizing brass to .308 specs and then trying to shove a .311 pill down it's mouth. This will work the brass, mess with concentricity and performance.
Treat each powder separate, too. Just 'cause it's close to the same and even has the same numbers, does not mean that it is. Always treat each powder as it's separate.

If you don't have a chronograph, i would highly suggest refrain from experimentation. Always go by the book and begin with the recommended starting loads, working your way up to max with extreme caution.
Remember, these recipes were performed by another guy using his firearm, on that day (sunny, overcast) and temp, using these particular components. Variables can change very quickly as well. How the dies are set up will create other variables, too. How much case neck retention, OAL, were they crimped, and if so, how were they crimped. Powders can vary from lot to lot so it can go on and on, etc.

I think the bottom line is that everyone here wishes you success in assembling your own ammunition that is excels, both in accuracy and performance, and that you do so safely.

Cheers...

LGB