First Reload Shoot: Soot on cases

[michaeltpo]

Today my friend and I shot our first reloads together.
All my reloads had a fair amount of soot on them. All had some soot on the necks. More than I'm used to with HXP. Most had a noticable amount in the neck area too. Some had soot running from the neck, around the shoulder and along the case walls. When I cleaned the bolt face it was pretty dirty. After using Hoppes on it the white rag had the bluest blue on it. (copper???) Gas is leaking back to the bolt face but I never noticed it while I was shooting.

I'm doing something wrong in my reloading process.

I shot some warm up clips with HXP and didn't have any soot.
I then shot 5 clips with the smallest load first (see below info) to the highest. Here are my loads:

Rifle: M1 Garand
150 FMJ seated with my bullet seating dies to an average OAl of 3.273 inches,
1972 HXP brass, CCI Primers.
IMR 4064 powder: 46.5, 46.9, 47.3,47.7, and lastly 48.1 grains.

Any ideas on what causes soot or what I may hvave done wrong?. I'll take any suggestions. Thanks very much.
Michael

[AEC1]

you need to work up your load. the soot is an indication that the pressure is not hight enough to seal the case to the chamber and gas is leaking by. Keep working your way twords max till the soot goes away. The geed news is accuracy should go up as well.

[michaeltpo]

I can do that but I think I've read of a lot of people with these type loads for the rifle, powder, bullet weight and never heard of anyone with soot issues.

Still every rifle is different so maybe I should raise it up a bit more.

[Ahhnother8]

you need to work up your load. the soot is an indication that the pressure is not hight enough to seal the case to the chamber and gas is leaking by. Keep working your way twords max till the soot goes away. The geed news is accuracy should go up as well.

I beg to differ with some of the above. But, accuracy does tend to get better as you get close to max loads.

I shoot NRA highpower and international long-range. The handloads we shoot are VERY stiff and the cases will still have soot on them. Some more than others and autoloaders tend to have more. I shot two matches this weekend with an AR and the cases were pretty black. I don't know what causes it, but just don't worry about it.

Lane

[Bedlam]

I am sure someone else may have an opinion but are you crimping the bullets in? I know its recommended shooting Semi-Autos. It might also help prevent the sooting but I am sure someone else could give you a better opinion.

[michaeltpo]

Not crimping. I know its recommended for semis but almost everyone has told me it's not needed.

[michaeltpo]

Wow.. my cases shrunk during firing

:confused

Wow my reloaded cases shrunk while during firing.

Below are some measurements I took. Sample averages are in bold at the bottom of each sample.

First are the bullets I used. I took measurements just below the canneleur, on the canneluer and just above the canneluer. I set my Lee seating die to an OAL of 3.27 inches on the canneluer. I did not crimp. Here are the six bullet samples I randomly grabbed.

Bullets
just below can. at can above canneluer
0.3085 0.2930 0.3070
0.3075 0.2930 0.3050
0.3080 0.2940 0.3065
0.3085 0.2930 0.3065
0.3085 0.2930 0.3060
0.3085 0.2935 0.3070
0.3083 0.2933 0.3063


prepped cases ready to reload.. this is as I prepared them and a random sample taken
Prepped cases
OAL base neck
2.4860 0.4675 0.3320
2.4835 0.4675 0.3325
2.4855 0.4685 0.3320
2.4835 0.4680 0.3315
2.4840 0.4680 0.3325
2.4840 0.4680 0.3330
2.4844 0.4679 0.3323


I made a few dummy rounds, so I took some measurements on them.

Dummy Rounds
OAL base just below crimp area of neck
2.4860 0.4680 0.3340
2.4840 0.4680 0.3335
2.4865 0.4685 0.3340
2.4855 0.4682 0.3338

Fired HXP cases
OAL base just below the neck
2.4940 0.4695 0.3410
2.4975 0.4715 0.3415
2.4925 0.4710 0.3425
2.4885 0.4705 0.3420
2.4860 0.4700 0.3410
2.4917 0.4705 0.3416


Fired reloads, most of these had soot on them, some a lot.
Note how the cases shrunk in length in relation to my prepped cases from above. These shot reloads were from the same brass pile I prepped from above.
Fired cases
OAL base just below the neck
2.4785 0.4705 0.3365
2.4820 0.4680 0.3330
2.4930 0.4715 0.3345
2.4800 0.4690 0.3410
2.4785 0.4705 0.3400
2.4805 0.4705 0.3410
2.4805 0.4705 0.3360
2.4820 0.4705 0.3320
2.4790 0.4710 0.3330
2.4805 0.4705 0.3410
2.4815 0.4703 0.3368

I'll try post pictures of some of the fired cases. I have no signs of excess pressure that I could see but there is a little nick/scratch (1/8th inch long) in the same spot of every case on both the HXP and my reloads. I have cleaned my chamber but don't have a tool to see in there. I'm getting one ASAP.

Could my problem be using the Lee Seating die on the canneluer which has a diameter of .293 inches. That seems really narrow. Maybe it cannot grip the bullet of such a narrowspot. I was shocked to see it so narrow. Maybe I should crimp.

Thanks for the suggestions and please keep any coming that you can think of. The rifle shoots well, it always has but obviously with gas leaking backwards I'll have to start at square one again. My best group was 1.25 inches at 50 yards. It can only get better once this is fixed or should I say, once I improve my reloading. Thanks.
Michael

[Chris M]

I was confused the first time, too. Put the cases through your full length resizing die, and they will stretch.