Starting out with .44mag

[pullnshoot25]

OK, so here is the deal... I have 600 cases (mix of mag/spl), 1000 primers, dies, a double cavity #429421 bullet mould and about 60lb of lead so that I can reload for my .44mag/spl revolver and rifle. I am looking to do the original Elmer Keith load of Alliant 2400 under a 250gr #429421 bullet. In order to do so, I need some advice from the Calguns reloading crew.

1) The lead I have seems a bit soft. Like, I drop it on the ground and it gets a decent dent in it. How much antimony/tin should I add to it to harden it up sufficiently for the old Keith load?

2) I have heard that the new Alliant 2400 is different than the old Alliant 2400 of Keith's day. Is this true or FUD?

3) What is a good SD load for the .44spl? I feel that the old Keith .44spl load (18.5gr Alliant 2400 under a #429421) might be a bit hot, though I am not certain.

Any help is appreciated!

[mather911]

Can't help you with the lead loads. I load 18grs of 2400 with 240gr Hornady XTP. That equals a bad @$$ round. I do know that you will need gas checks on the lead slugs. Someone will be along soon to help you out with your particular load.

[CSACANNONEER]

STOP! It sounds like you are totally unfamilar with casting. First of all, I am not familar with the mold in question. Is it GCed? If so, I would probably try a few and see if I get leading problems. Personally, I've never had a problem using softer lead but, I'm not pushing lead too fast either. So, how are you planning to lube and size your hardcasts? You can't just cast and load them.

Can't help you with the lead loads. I load 18grs of 2400 with 240gr Hornady XTP. That equals a bad @$$ round. I do know that you will need gas checks on the lead slugs. Someone will be along soon to help you out with your particular load.

Not all .44mag load require GCs. It really depends on the mold, the lead and how fast you're pushing the bullet.

[checkenbach]

Go to Cast Boolits' website and enlighten yourself before making some possibly unwise choices. My brother has been casting various caliber boolits
(.38/.357 158grn SWC, .45 230grn Rn) using Lee tumble lube style moulds and quenching them in water after casting using straight wheel weights,
and I have had no leading issues. These are all loaded under 850 fps however.

[mather911]

Not all .44mag load require GCs. It really depends on the mold, the lead and how fast you're pushing the bullet.

18.5grs of 2400 seems pretty hot to me that is why I said that. I know my 18gr loads with the 240gr XTP's pack a good punch at 1400 fps.

[IrishPirate]

hold on let me get my chineese translator.......WTF did you just say?

I'm sure i'll understand you in a few months once i start my reloading adventure.....man i didn't know the lingo was that confusing!!!

oh yeah, good luck! make sure to post your recipe too once you're done

[pullnshoot25]

Lube will be involved. The #429421 is the original Keith bullet and does not take a GC. If kept below 1200fps, one is not needed.

Quote from a website

Two excellent cast bullets head the popularity list for .44 Special and .44 Magnum hulls – Lyman’s 429421, designed by Elmer Keith, and their 429244, Ray Thompson’s semi-wadcutter, gas check number. As usually cast, the Keith weighs around 250 gr. Both are available as hollowpoints, which are extremely destructive on small game at the higher velocity levels.

Because the 429421 plain base has never given me any leading problems in my .44 guns, I choose it over the 429244 and save the trouble and expense incurred by the gascheck. Since the introduction of the .44 Magnum, I have quit using heavy handloads in the .44 Special, and now put together a mild, but hotter-than-factory combination of the Keith bullet, sized .429”, over 7.5 gr. of Unique. Velocity runs around 940 fps, a definite improvement over the cream puff factory round. I use only solid head .44 Special cases, since the old balloon head versions are wont to stretch erratically, making trimming a requisite before a bullet with a crimping groove may be effectively used.

The same 429421 goes into my .44 Magnum ammunition, with a charge of 21 gr. of 2400, rather than 22 gr. usually recommended. This costs a bit of velocity, but is noticeably easier on both gun and shooter, and still speaks with enough authority to have bagged me mule deer and many lesser species with ease.

[CSACANNONEER]

18.5grs of 2400 seems pretty hot to me that is why I said that. I know my 18gr loads with the 240gr XTP's pack a good punch at 1400 fps.

Then I'm inclined to agree with you. I read your post as a blanket statement about all .44mag loads needing to be GCed. OTOH, if the EK load references this mold (and it's not GCed - I don't know) with a certain powder charge than, that's what I'd try. IIRC, many, if not most, of Elmer's loads were pushing the envelope and extra attention should be paid to every detail of both loading and shooting them.

[pullnshoot25]

Here is the source of that 18.5gr Alliant 2400 load discrepancy...

Elmer's early load for his beloved Special was 18.5 grains of # 2400 with the 250 grain Keith bullet #429421 in balloon head cases. When solid cases came along, with less powder capacity, the charge was dropped to 17.0 grains. Both loads go over 1200+ fps. from a 7 1/2" Colt Single Action and are exceptionally accurate especially in a Smith & Wesson Model 24.

[762cavalier]

Lube will be involved.

[TKM]

Some of the older folks like complicated machinery and electrical devices and assistance of some kind, I'm more of a squirt some in and vigorously spin it around kind of guy.

[pullnshoot25]

HEHE.

[Turo]

Lube will be involved.

I'm more of a squirt some in and vigorously spin it around kind of guy.

Thread = full of innuendo.

[CSACANNONEER]

I remember hearing something about certain powders which have changed over the years. Since the EK load data is not the newest on the planet, I'd suggest verifying that 2400 has not changed over the years. Also, I'd treat this as a maximum load buy reducing the powder charge 10-15% and slowly working it up, watching for signs of excessive pressure.

[mike100]

My larger diameter pistol calibers really lead up easier than 38/9mm so I'd urge you to consider trying a faster powder at a 3/4 velocity recipe for a pleasant experience. As a matter of fact, even the better hardcast bullets are rough in 44 mag so I'd get a couple of hundred plated 240 grains to try out before you jump into casting.

I like 8.2 grains of Unique with a 240 grain plated (44 MAG).

specifically about that lyman cast bullet, here are my notes from when I loaded it 4 years ago for 44 spl.--->

Keith Style long nose bullet, Lyman mold #429421 using #2 alloy. 245 gr nominal- mine were 250 gr

This may be too long to use for 44 magnum, but is a good 44 spl that has less distance to jump to the forcing cone in the revolver bbl. It also is seated less deeply and allows for more case volume which would be beneficial if one were trying to duplicate 900 fps+ Keith loads.


the 6.3 gr unique has yielded excellent accuracy with other bullets and these also shot pretty well at this charge."