45 ACP Self Defense Load

[-hanko]

You can make VERY effective man stoppers and you MAY not get hemmed up over it IF you have to use them. However Why give the lawyer that is GOING to try to take your freedom in a criminal court and most definately take ALOT of your money in a civil court more "ammo" to use against you. Cor bon and various others to include Hornady make REALLY effective man stoppers and they are the ones that made em "deadlier" not you so you are in the clear on that little piece of the pie.

+1 on using factory ammo and an UNALTERED gun!!!!!

Got a cite??

-hanko

[1911su16b870]

+1 on using factory ammo and an UNALTERED gun!!!!!

Got a cite?? -hanko

This is a generally accepted statement about defensive handguns and ammuntion that is based upon justified application of lethal force defendants and their court cases.

Massad Ayoob in his 1995 book "The Ayoob Files: The Book" has two case summaries:

Luis Alvarez (a LEO) was attacked by the DA for a modified service revolver.

Mark Branham (a citizen) was attacked by the DA due to false ballistician claims about his factory Speer loads.

Hopefully someone else on the board can come up with a more direct quote...

[sobiloff]

Massad Ayoob in his 1995 book "The Ayoob Files: The Book" has two case summaries:

Ayoob's the only one banging that particular drum, and neither of the cases he cites are substantial.

Re: Avlarez <http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921630,00.html>, one prosecutor grasping at straws doesn't make established case law. He was on trial for shooting a suspect who appeared to go for a gun, not that he had lightened the trigger on his revolver. In fact, Avlarez was found not guilty by jury trial in record time.

Re: Branham, I can't find anything with Google on his name and guns, Speer, etc. Are you sure you have the name right? I imagine I'd get quite a few hits if there was substantial precedent set by his case.

All I'm saying is that y'all are free to make your own choices about whether you should carry handloads or not, but make sure you're making informed decisions, not ones based on FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). To my knowledge there is no established case law against handloads in self-defense situations.

[1911su16b870]

...All I'm saying is that y'all are free to make your own choices about whether you should carry handloads or not, but make sure you're making informed decisions, not ones based on FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). To my knowledge there is no established case law against handloads in self-defense situations...

-hanko requested a citation about unaltered guns and hand loads, I recalled Ayoob mentioning that and pulled up those citations from his book. I hoped someone else on the board could come up with a better reference. If I can find a statement to that effect I'll post it...

Long story short, in CA if/when you are involved in the application of lethal force, you probably will be charged and/or sued. I would not want any other ideas to complicate my case such as using handloads and/or an altered gun. While that may not be established case law, Ayoob mentioned the ordeals the defendants went through with the prosecuting attorneys argueing the defendant as an overzelous maniac due to the "extra ordinary measures" the defendant has gone to develop hand load "killer" bullets and "unsafe" altered guns.

...All I'm saying is that y'all are free to make your own choices about whether you should carry handloads or not...

While I handload for range sessions, my carry choice is always an unaltered gun with factory loads.