Request for Kernels dimension for these powders *pls help*

[Jicko]

If you have any of these powders on your reloading bench, can you PLEASE help me out?

Vihtavuori N530
IMR 3031
Accurate 2015
Vihtavuori N133
Norma 201

Can you please measure the length of a few kernels and post them here or PM me? Basically, I want to know the average length of them. I am in a reverse engineering project.

Can you also take a picture of a few kernels?

[bfoosh006]

you might "e-mail" Handloader magazine with your request, they do a monthly article called propellant profiles. R.H. VanDenburg, Jr. wrote this months article. The article is always 2-3 pages long and quite in-depth.

[phish]

I don't understand this obsession with duplicating military rounds. It won't buy you points or shrink your groups. It's a .308 ffs, the load development's been done, for quite some time.

shoot more, foo-foo less

[Jicko]

I don't understand this obsession with duplicating military rounds. It won't buy you points or shrink your groups. It's a .308 ffs, the load development's been done, for quite some time.

A LOT of work had gone into developing such rounds.... MUCH MORE work and time than I can put in myself.

Also, looking at the end goal of the Mk316, it is very much inline with what I want:
- .308WIN
- 1000yds performance
- accurate
- temp insensitive
- gun independent

Since my current RL15 load is quite temp sensitive, that's why I want to move to something else.

shoot more, foo-foo less

Shooting is only half the fun.... load development is the other half.... currently my groups are about .5MOA, what's wrong with trying to get even better?

[bfoosh006]

A LOT of work had gone into developing such rounds.... MUCH MORE work and time than I can put in myself.

Also, looking at the end goal of the Mk316, it is very much inline with what I want:
- .308WIN
- 1000yds performance
- accurate
- temp insensitive
- gun independent

Since my current RL15 load is quite temp sensitive, that's why I want to move to something else.




Shooting is only half the fun.... load development is the other half.... currently my groups are about .5MOA, what's wrong with trying to get even better?

Its Varget time !

[Jicko]

Its Varget time !

I tried it, didn't give me as tight a group as RL15, in my experience.

[ar15barrels]

Also, looking at the end goal of the Mk316, it is very much inline with what I want:
- .308WIN
- 1000yds performance
- accurate
- temp insensitive
- gun independent

There's no such thing as a gun independent accurate load.
It's always going to be a compromise when loading for multiple guns.
How many loads did you try with varget?

You need to work up a load for your specific gun to get the best results.

[Jicko]

Gun independent means, works well with both bolt gun and gas gun. Some commercial .308WIN loads didn't work too well with gas gun.... eg. BHA factory 175SMKs....

You need to work up a load for your specific gun to get the best results.

I know I know... I heard you all... and I do understood that....

But this is kind of a fun project for me... to try to figure out what this new ammo is... that's why I am asking for help here...

I figured someone MUST have these powders lying around...

[ar15barrels]

I know I know... I heard you all... and I do understood that....

I figured someone MUST have these powders lying around...

Yet you choose to ignore it, so we choose to ignore your wacky requests.

Here's a hint: there's NO standard kernel length within a specific powder type.
The lengths vary so much that it would be futile to do research based on kernel length.

Since you will keep ignoring us, here are the kernel lengths you requested:
All the powders you asked about will have kernel lengths between 0.020" and 0.170"

[ocabj]

Here's a hint: there's NO standard kernel length within a specific powder type.
The lengths vary so much that it would be futile to do research based on kernel length.

There's also the fact that the ammunition manufacturers are known to:

1. Use powders that are formulated for in-house use only (never sold to consumers).
2. Adjust charge weights in a given lot of ammo based on pressure testing using the component lot combinations.
3. Change powders as necessary.

[Jicko]

Yet you choose to ignore it, so we choose to ignore your wacky requests.

Here's a hint: there's NO standard kernel length within a specific powder type.
The lengths vary so much that it would be futile to do research based on kernel length.

Since you will keep ignoring us, here are the kernel lengths you requested:
All the powders you asked about will have kernel lengths between 0.020" and 0.170"

In my experience, for one particular powder, they look "relatively" the same, lot after lot.... they may not be EXACTLY the same.... (every lot of RL15 I have used, every lot of VV N550, their physical appearance is similar... etc...)

I just want to figure out which of these powders seems a little LONGER than varget, is it TOO MUCH to ask?

Should be very easy to figure out which one is ball, and which one is long extruded, and which one is short extruded.... those, don't vary much...

PS. I wasn't ignoring the fact that if i am to find ONE LOAD that works BEST for my gun, I would go with the everyone's recommendation (go test for that particular gun), o..... yet... just to satisfy my personal curiosity.... why can't I try to *figure* what they put in Mk316Mod0?? And I shouldn't have to go out and buy each and every type of powder that is out there and just to look at the physical charateristics of the kernels to narrow it down, right? I just want a short list, then i can go buy couple of 1lb-er and then try... and see if that recipe give me any surprise.... on my gun.

PPS. so which one is 0.170"? that's probably what i am going after...

PPPS. normally, I wouldn't expect only 40gr of powder would be able to make significant velocity for a 175SMK, but they have done it now.... maybe less is better... maybe 40gr of this powder is going to be better than 45gr of RL15.... how would i know if i don't go test that out?

There's also the fact that the ammunition manufacturers are known to:

1. Use powders that are formulated for in-house use only (never sold to consumers).
2. Adjust charge weights in a given lot of ammo based on pressure testing using the component lot combinations.
3. Change powders as necessary.

Know fact. But from an Fed/LC insider, that the powder that is currently being used, is a common, commercially available powder.

I just want to get "close" to what is in it.

People had done these kind of exercise for many of the past rounds... like figured out that it is RL15 that they used to make M118LR, etc...

[Jicko]

If you have any of these powders on your reloading bench, can you PLEASE help me out?

Vihtavuori N530
IMR 3031
Accurate 2015
Vihtavuori N133
Norma 201

Can you please measure the length of a few kernels and post them here or PM me? Basically, I want to know the average length of them. I am in a reverse engineering project.

Can you also take a picture of a few kernels?

I think N133, N530 and 2015 are "short".

Anyone know what IMR 3031 and Norma 201 looks like?

[SVRider]

Longer than Varget....

[Jicko]

Longer than Varget....

Where do you pull those hairs out from?

[California-Quigley]

There's also the fact that the ammunition manufacturers are known to:

1. Use powders that are formulated for in-house use only (never sold to consumers).
2. Adjust charge weights in a given lot of ammo based on pressure testing using the component lot combinations.
3. Change powders as necessary.

as well as blending powders..... Winchester blends its 5.56mm whitebox, q3131 and q3131A