Question On Compression....

[goodlookin1]

Hey guys,

I am fairly new to reloading. I have an AR-15 which I have successfully reloaded for. My question is, How do you know how much compression is too much compression?

I currently have:
- Ramshot TAC
- Hornady V-MAX 55 gr non boat tail

I have loaded the lowest stats in my Nosler reloading book: 24 gr TAC @ around 2900 fps @ 93% capacity. This gave me plenty of room for the 55 gr V-MAX to be seated at the proper depth with room to spare (you can feel the powder move when you shake the round). My book then lists the ability to go up to 26 gr powder @ 3100+ fps @ 99% capacity (anything over 100% is compressed). My problem, is that I just reloaded 25 gr last night and it filled all the way up to the beginning of the neck. This was listed to be about 97% capacity, but when I seated the bullet, I could feel that it was compressing the powder inside the case. Now, I believe it to be a "safe" load because I didnt have to force the "compressing" much at all, but I could feel the powder crunching, nonetheless. The completed 25 gr powder round has absolutely no loose powder when shaking it.

Is this dangerous? Should I get rid of these rounds, or is it just more wear and tear on the cases? Is anyone else doing this?

Thanks.

[J-cat]

No. No. No.

Compressing powder is normal.

[Ahhnother8]

As long as the bullet doesn't pop back out, it's all good...

Lane

[J-cat]

Compressing pistol powder in a rifle case is not good.

[xrMike]

The completed 25 gr powder round has absolutely no loose powder when shaking it.

You can't say that for sure, just from shaking it, because even a round with a very small amount of empty space in it will not make any sound either, when shaken.

[Beelzy]

Get a powder trickler. It will take care of that issue.

[falldowngoboom]

Compressing powder is normal. I've done it lots. Just make sure you're using the right powder!

[FLIGHT762]

Get a powder trickler. It will take care of that issue.

Ramshot TAC is a ball powder. A powder trickler will not help.

[goodlookin1]

Alright, well I have an update:

I found out last night that I was actually reloading 30 gr, not 25 gr! After saying that, one may wonder if I would even be allowed to reload! I was just brain farting and was looking at the numbers on the scale wrong.

Anyways, after making 26 gr loads, there is still plenty of room in the case....and I can still feel it shaking. So now the question: I have 5 rounds with 30 gr of TAC and 55gr V-MAX bullets, instead of the max listed 26 gr in my Nosler book.......are those safe to shoot or should I pull them? I'll ruin the bullets if I pull 'em, but that's not really a big deal. I'd rather keep my hand and fingers

[Ahhnother8]

I'd rather keep my hand and fingers

Then pull them....

[goodlookin1]

Is there anyone who can maybe verify sticking 30 gr of TAC into a .223 case and tell me if it looks like it's too much?

[Nodda Duma]

Is there anyone who can maybe verify sticking 30 gr of TAC into a .223 case and tell me if it looks like it's too much?

It *is* too much. Max load for 55 gr bullet in TAC is 26.3 gr according to Sierra's AR-15 specific reference. Please don't blow up your gun in front of your face. Get those bullets pulled. If you don't want to ruin them, take them down to a smith who can do it for you or get an RCBS collet bullet puller kit.

And just in case you don't know, you shouldn't be loading up max loads as a starting point. Take the max load (and use Sierra's as reference since you are shooting an AR), and start loading up 10% below this value. So for a max load of 26.3 gr TAC, work up a load starting with 23.7 gr. Step up .2 gr until you have an accurate load (or desired muzzle velocity). Watch for signs of overpressure. *Never* assume that a listed max load is safe for YOUR gun and YOUR case/bullet/primer combination. Doing so is a good way to get yourself hurt.


-Jason

[xrMike]

Is there anyone who can maybe verify sticking 30 gr of TAC into a .223 case and tell me if it looks like it's too much?

I'm going to step out on a limb here, and suggest that reloading might not be a safe hobby for you.

[goodlookin1]

I pulled the bullets last night. After searching and searching, I couldnt find anyone on the net going over 26.5 gr using ANY powder for the .223. Always better safe than sorry. I always start at the minimum recommended loads and have successfully done so already with the .223. I so the other night I made 24.5, 25, 25.5 and 26 gr (max load @ 97% cap.) loads, 10 of each to see which one will give me the best accuracy.

I knew I would get a comment like that of xrMike, and I quite expected (and deserved) it. Truth is, I deal with numbers all day (I'm a Controller for a company) and after a long day of dealing with too many of 'em, it's easy to slip into somewhat of a dyslexic state Match that with being fairly new to reloading and that can be a recipe for disaster.

I will just be sure to choose when I do my reloading sessions more carefully.

[Nodda Duma]

I so the other night I made 24.5, 25, 25.5 and 26 gr (max load @ 97% cap.) loads, 10 of each to see which one will give me the best accuracy.

Forget about case capacity with smokeless powder. Loading to some percentage capacity is a *bad* habit to get into unless you are shooting black powder. In addition, ask yourself...97% capacity of what? A case measured by some guy who lives 1000+ miles away? How does it compare to *your* cases. You don't know. You will not be able to measure your case capacities to any sort of accuracy, because you can't get into the case once you seat your bullets and seat a primer. So referencing to 97% of some case capacity is absolutely meaningless. (Imagine working as a controller but not knowing what currency your monetary figures were referenced to. Dollar? Yen? Peso? Your numbers would be meaningless.)

Focus on powder charge weight. It is *much* easier to measure, and your rifle accuracy is more directly dependent on powder charge for any given cartridge headstamp.

Again, start off 10% below max loads. This is a rule of thumb based on decades of safe reloading by countless reloaders. Another one: if you are using military brass, decrease max load by 1 grain. Decrease max load by another grain if you are using mag primers or CCI military primers.

Increase charges by 0.2 grains while working up your load. Note this is roughly 1% of the charge. Incrementing by ~1% will give you a better indication of approximate accurate loads. Think of it this way: loading by 0.5 gr increments at ~25 grains is like running at top speed through your house with all the lights off. You're going to miss the bathroom and likely bounce off a wall. If you were loading something like 30-06, stepping up by 0.5 gr would make sense (1% of ~50 gr), but it's simply too big an increment to provide you with meaningful results.

Not giving you this advice to make your reloading hobby more complicated. I'm giving you this advice so that you get into good reloading habits, which will keep you from killing or maiming yourself at the worst, and get the most out of your hobby at best.

-Jason