Hard Cast 45acp

[fishnbeer]

Perhaps I should have posted this question in the reloading forum. I am looking to get some more punch out of my 1911 for carrying in the woods.

Looking for something suitable for black bear and mtn lion defense. So a hard cast bullet, prefer round nose. Should I go for a lighter bullet like a 180gr and get higher velocity or stick with 230gr ?

Only pistol powder I have is win 231 and was thinking load to max charge. I have been loading berrys 230gr with 4.7gr of 231 and runs flawless.

[Tommy Gun]

231 won't get you there. Need to find a powder better for +p. True Blue is an option. Used Unique before that. 185 XTPs with 9gr of TB nets me 1k fps from a G30.

[bruce381]

45 acp not really suitable for bear 44 mag or 44 special is better, that said a SWC or FP would put more energy on target than a round nose.

[ar15barrels]

I vote for a 200 SWC because that's going to transfer energy better than 230gr hardball.

You definitely want a better powder:

Cartridge          : .45 Auto (ACP) (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .452, 200, LEE 452-200-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 15.859 grain H2O = 1.030 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.250 inch = 31.75 mm
Barrel Length      : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 18374 psi, or 126 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 102 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

1 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 50%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate No.7                       78.7     12.3     0.80    1054    67.2    18375    4187   0.619  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL                77.4      9.0     0.58    1049    78.2    18375    4080   0.624  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant 2400                        99.4     13.8     0.89    1044    56.9    18375    4111   0.621  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38                     94.4     11.3     0.73    1038    71.5    18375    3936   0.622  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant HERCO                       87.9      8.1     0.52    1038    92.1    18375    3815   0.638  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N37                     79.5      9.0     0.58    1036    87.9    18375    3794   0.626  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N350                     82.5      8.8     0.57    1033    88.2    18375    3718   0.622  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BLUE DOT                    98.0     11.7     0.76    1033    66.0    18375    3967   0.629  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105                    102.0     11.7     0.76    1032    71.4    17036    4224   0.636
Alliant UNIQUE                      77.2      7.3     0.47    1031    95.3    18375    3658   0.639  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9                       86.1     13.4     0.87    1025    59.8    18375    3879   0.623  ! Near Maximum !
NitroKemia REX 3/Green/36           94.0      7.5     0.49    1022    98.7    18375    3351   0.630  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N330                     72.6      6.9     0.45    1022    99.9    18375    3255   0.630  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5                       57.9      8.7     0.57    1021    81.9    18375    3696   0.628  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon HS-6                        63.4      9.2     0.59    1017    84.7    18375    3616   0.631  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Silhouette                  62.8      8.0     0.52    1016    92.8    18375    3500   0.630  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Longshot                    59.7      8.8     0.57    1015    87.1    18375    3571   0.631  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WAP                      63.0      8.0     0.52    1015    92.4    18375    3498   0.630  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 540                      58.2      8.8     0.57    1015    87.4    18375    3562   0.631  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot True Blue                   59.2      8.8     0.57    1015    87.2    18375    3561   0.631  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BULLSEYE                    64.6      6.3     0.41    1013    95.8    18375    3416   0.629  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Universal                   70.3      6.6     0.43    1008    99.7    18375    3246   0.648  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N340                     75.1      7.3     0.47    1007    95.5    18375    3336   0.634  ! Near Maximum !
NitroKemia REX 2/Yellow/32          88.9      6.9     0.44    1001    98.9    18375    3128   0.635  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1250                  74.7      6.5     0.42     988    99.3    18375    3000   0.636  ! Near Maximum !
NitroKemia REX 1/Red/28             85.7      6.7     0.43     987    99.3    18375    2973   0.630  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Zip                         52.5      6.5     0.42     981    99.7    18375    2915   0.641  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 231                      58.4      6.5     0.42     981    99.7    18375    2915   0.641  ! Near Maximum !

[Sailormilan2]

A SWC bullet will transfer more energy to the target than a round nose. I would go with a 200 gr SWC, and loaded hot with a slower powder than W231. Normally my powder is Unique(c.1000fps) for this, but I could easily go with AA#5(c. 1020fps), or similar. AA#7 works, but takes much more powder, for the same results, as AA#5.
Note, all SWC bullets are not the same. The RCBS 201 gr SWC is called a "KT" (Keith Type) because it's nose(Meplat) is wider. Keith had specific design parameters for a Keith Type bullet. One of which is the Meplat being 70% of the bullet width. The RCBS design, while looking similar to the well known HG 68 SWC bullet, has the wider Meplat of the Keith Type. Either one would be an improvement over a round nose.

[divingin]

A SWC bullet will transfer more energy to the target than a round nose.

If I'm not mistaken, that only holds true if the RN completely penetrates and exits the target. If two bullets are launched with the same kinetic energy and both stop within the target, they've both transferred all of that energy.

So the question on something like bear (where you're not likely to have the bullet exit) is how much penetration you want before the energy runs out.

[bigbossman]

45 acp not really suitable for bear 44 mag or 44 special is better, that said a SWC or FP would put more energy on target than a round nose.

That was my thought as well. 1911's aren't really a gun that I'd want to be shooting +p rounds out of, and .45ACP is a relatively low velocity round. Sure - it will kill quite well, but for bear and big cats I'd rather carry a .44mag revolver.

Also - I'd go with the 200gr SWC as well. the 180gr bullets can be finicky and cause feed issues in a 1911. You probably don't want that.

[32spoke]

With a 1911, run a less chamfered firing pin stop, stronger main spring and recoil spring and shoot 450smc.

[bigbossman]

With a 1911, run a less chamfered firing pin stop, stronger main spring and recoil spring and shoot 450smc.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/the-450-smc-a-potent-practical-defensive-cartridge/

....A 230-grain load fired from the .450 SMC cartridge out of a 5-inch 1911 will generate about 78 percent more recoil than a 230-grain load fired from a .45 ACP.

Ugh......... nope.

[Sailormilan2]

If I'm not mistaken, that only holds true if the RN completely penetrates and exits the target. If two bullets are launched with the same kinetic energy and both stop within the target, they've both transferred all of that energy.

So the question on something like bear (where you're not likely to have the bullet exit) is how much penetration you want before the energy runs out.

Agreed. Personally, I would want something with more power than a 45acp.

[bruce381]

google temporary and permanent wound cavity, a flat point with a large flat meplat will impart more crushing damage than a round nose. Next best to expanding hollow point but they depend on shot placement and velocity a hard flat point may be more reliable? or use a shotgun with slugs LOL

[bruce381]

my analogy is you are trying to get across crowded dance floor, a round nose is nicely squeezing between people to get across (no mess)a flat nose is pushing straight ahead knocking people to the side (lot of mess).

[divingin]

google temporary and permanent wound cavity, a flat point with a large flat meplat will impart more crushing damage than a round nose. Next best to expanding hollow point but they depend on shot placement and velocity a hard flat point may be more reliable? or use a shotgun with slugs LOL

Your statement was "will transfer more energy". That is incorrect. Both will transfer all the kinetic energy if they stop in the stop in the target. Assuming identical weights and velocities, the energy transfer is the same.

Wound channel and tissue damage is a different animal.

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

Have you considered a 1911 10MM? I load light fast rounds in a 10MM Fast and hard is my theory. Wouldn't hesitate to shoot a bear with that.

[Sandspider500]

9.2gr longshot speer spp brass and a lee 200gr rnfp at 1.22 oal 1143 fps avg