Handloading for vintage shotgun

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[JagerDog]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRX6i8Rp6o

[BIGOX]

Time. For the price of a used Mec 600jr it's kind of hard to pass up for a set of hand loading dies. I personally would look into a used Lee load all (which you might find cheaper then hand dies) just to save time.

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Yeah, would definitely go with a mec if I had more room. And someday will. But as it is my very limited storage is overtaxed already, and anything new requires something else leaving.

For my purpose of say 200 cartridges a year I actually like the lee solution along with a roll crip using a hand drill. That way I can load some reduced pressure loads (7-8k range) now.

A load all would have absolutely been cheaper than the loader, the prices are almost enough to convince me to just make a similar tool. Maybe after a build some new cabinets I can find a way to stash it somewhere and at that point it would make sense. But why wait to reload what I want now?

[kcstott]

Nitro proofed? Is it superior proofed as well?

The reason I ask is in california you can't hunt with lead ammo. so the means non toxic shot. and unless you want to spend $90 a box that means steel shot.
Steel shot can be shot out of a superior proofed gun as long as the shot size is not larger than #5 shot and the charge is no more than 1 oz at 1400 FPS or less in a 12 bore. or 1 1/8 at 1250 fps or less. No more than half choke.
If you are not in California you need to fix that in your bio. Kent makes shells for classic doubles with correct loads that will not make the gun come off face.

[JagerDog]

Nitro proofed? Is it superior proofed as well?

The reason I ask is in california you can't hunt with lead ammo. so the means non toxic shot. and unless you want to spend $90 a box that means steel shot.
Steel shot can be shot out of a superior proofed gun as long as the shot size is not larger than #5 shot and the charge is no more than 1 oz at 1400 FPS or less in a 12 bore. or 1 1/8 at 1250 fps or less. No more than half choke.
If you are not in California you need to fix that in your bio. Kent makes shells for classic doubles with correct loads that will not make the gun come off face.

You can replace lead with an equal VOLUME of bismuth. IIRC the density ratio is ~ 0.85:1. So a 1 ounce lead payload can be replaced with 0.85 oz bismuth.

Non-tox certified bismuth-tin shot is available. I haven't kept up with price, but 0.85oz should be loadable for around $1 each.

Bismuth is also safe with old guns. I wouldn't shoot steel out of an early 1900's double. Been known to break to solder at ribs and barrels.

[JagerDog]

Yeah, would definitely go with a mec if I had more room. And someday will. But as it is my very limited storage is overtaxed already, and anything new requires something else leaving.

For my purpose of say 200 cartridges a year I actually like the lee solution along with a roll crip using a hand drill. That way I can load some reduced pressure loads (7-8k range) now.

A load all would have absolutely been cheaper than the loader, the prices are almost enough to convince me to just make a similar tool. Maybe after a build some new cabinets I can find a way to stash it somewhere and at that point it would make sense. But why wait to reload what I want now?

I don't know how well a previously star crimped round will roll crimp.

[NapalmCheese]

If it were me, and admittedly I'm biased for several reasons, I'd load brass shells with black and bismuth.

All the loading tools you need fit in a small tin and the loads are low pressure.

Hell, if you are truly frightened by black powder, load with Red Dot.

A LPP, powder, nitro card, fiber wad or two, shot, overshot card and you're done. Tools necessary are a punch, small hammer, a modified dowel and some tight bond glue. Plus you have the benefit of not introducing plastic trash into the environment from wads or hulls.

[kcstott]

You can replace lead with an equal VOLUME of bismuth. IIRC the density ratio is ~ 0.85:1. So a 1 ounce lead payload can be replaced with 0.85 oz bismuth.

Non-tox certified bismuth-tin shot is available. I haven't kept up with price, but 0.85oz should be loadable for around $1 each.

Bismuth is also safe with old guns. I wouldn't shoot steel out of an early 1900's double. Been known to break to solder at ribs and barrels.

I agree but Bismuth is expensive. and too many people will cheep out on ammo so they can shoot an old gun that they really should invest the money in proper ammo for. So Yes I agree. but he's in all likelihood not going to buy a machine to load a hand full of rounds.

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[NapalmCheese]

The brass hulls are pretty readily available at the moment, expensive though. I use them for cowboy shooting and while I loaded up some bismuth for ducks, I never took my double out for ducks this year.

I use Longshot and bismuth in my 16, it's pretty common there. I /think/ I'm using it in 12 as well, but honestly don't remember my recipe for 12 gauge bismuth (I do load them in AA hulls though and mark them with a green sticker. Haven't been checked yet, but if they have a Hot Shot it shouldn't be too much of a pain my ***).

[JagerDog]

Longshot is a "magnum" shotshell powder. Similar, but a bit slower than Blue Dot, another good magnum powder.

Bismuth is running just over $1 per ounce. Size up 1 from whatever lead pellet you would use. Share wads with lead for the same VOLUME.

Muzzle loading 209's are NOT a good swap for shotshell primers. They are "weak" and provide poor performance or worse. Magnum powders inherently need a bit more "punch". Not necessarily "magnum" primers, but none intentionally weak.

[bigbossman]

Muzzle loading 209's are NOT a good swap for shotshell primers. They are "weak" and provide poor performance or worse. Magnum powders inherently need a bit more "punch". Not necessarily "magnum" primers, but none intentionally weak.

Not meaning to derail the thread, but I wasn't aware that there was a special 209 primer for in-line BP rifles. I don't have or shoot one, but everyone I know that does just uses regular Winchester 209 shotgun primers.

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I was using regular 209s as well. Although I very rarely shoot it, more an aspirational purchase than a practical one.

[JagerDog]

Not meaning to derail the thread, but I wasn't aware that there was a special 209 primer for in-line BP rifles. I don't have or shoot one, but everyone I know that does just uses regular Winchester 209 shotgun primers.

They're sold in the barrel stuffer department. That's behind the levergun department.

Depends on your propellent as to their suitability. I believe Blackhorn specifically says not to use ML specific 209's. I guess their stuff is harder to light than some.

Regular 209's work. They aren't interchangeable performance wise. I wouldn't suggest using ML 209's in a shotshell, particularly with a "magnum" or ball powder.