Hornady ELD-X or ELD-M

[BigBronco]

Any one have some feed back on these? I am thinking of trying the .224 80 gr.

To use in my 1/7 White Oak.

[jimmykan]

I think you mean the ELD-X?

They are the hunting version of the ELD-M which is the target version, and in turn is the successor to the Hornady A-MAX bullet.

The A-MAX polymer tips were made from a material that would deform in flight and decrease the bullet's BC as it flew. The ELD bullets are pretty much the same as A-MAX except the tip material has been improved, doesn't deform anymore.

[cz74]

I am experimenting with the 88-grain .224" diameter ELD-X projectile for 223 Rem in my Savage 110 with 26-inch barrel 1:7 twist. The bullet has G1 BC 0.545, according to twist and ballistics calculators, in order to maximize the BC, the velocity and altitude matters. For example, for my particular load, it says I need to achieve at least 2700fps muzzle velocity at 3,000 feet elevation.

[Cowboy T]

Got some ELD-X's in .30 cal as factory seconds. They will easily do 1/2 MOA if you do your part with both handloading and marksmanship technique.

[broadside]

When my brother was reloading the X's the jacket was inconsistent and the seater die that used the ogive portion to push the bullet was resulting in different OALs.

Switched to the M's and they are spot on and consistent every time. Not sure if the X's have improved in the 4-5 years since this happened but its the experience we had.

[ShaunBrady]

Any one have some feed back on these? I am thinking of trying the .224 80 gr.

To use in my 1/7 White Oak.

If that's a White Oak AR barrel and you intend to run the ammo through an AR magazine, it's the wrong bullet.

In the 223, the 75, 80, and 88 grain ELDm are at their best loaded to 2.5+" in long throated bolt guns. Trying to run them at 2.26" in an AR magazine costs case capacity and velocity faster than the BC improves the ballistics. If you want to single load them in an AR, the barrel will need freebore added if the chamber isn't specifically for that type of bullet.

A trip to the Hornady website didn't turn up any 224 ELDx bullets.

The 77 smk has a shorter nose optimized for use in an AR magazine.

I run the 75 ELDm at 3030 fps in a 26" 1:7 RPR. I looked at the heavier bullets in the line and thought the 75s gave the best balance of BC, velocity, and stability factor.

[smoothy8500]

If you want to single load them in an AR

To use in my 1/7 White Oak.

Definitely single load as ShaunBrady points out, which is fairly common in NRA Highpower at 600 yards. Some people are using ELD, but most common is the 80gr either SMK or Nosler CC loaded at 2.500+ inches. Just have to find the lands and jump accordingly.

[BigBronco]

Shaunbrady, Thanks that is more of a response that I was looking for.

The question is will they our perfom the Nosler 77gr CC's I have been using?

I usually like Hornady bullets even after the A-Max issues that came to light just after I bought 500 in 30 cal.

[smoothy8500]

The question is will they out perform the Nosler 77gr CC's I have been using?

I use Nosler 80gr CC's at 600yds vs the 77's, they do have better performance against wind at that distance. Generally a half moa less windage on a 4mph full value wind, and nearly 1moa less at 8-10 mph. It can prevent a missed wind change from drifting into the 9 ring.

[ShaunBrady]

The question is will they our perfome the Nosler 77gr CC's I have been using?

The short answer is the huge jump in BC for the relatively small increase in weight means the opportunity is there for many long range applications.

It is not guaranteed though. It'll require other adjustments including the 1:7 barrel you've already bought. If you're coming from a 1:8 with the 77CC, you're starting slightly in the hole with 100 yard groups. This equipment isn't optimized for 100 yard groups, so I doubt that's what you're trying to do. The point is that big BC boost will be a 3 steps forward, 1 or 2 steps back kind of deal.

It's not going to work out of an AR magazine. Skipping the case capacity / velocity issue for a moment, trying to fit the 80 grain bullet into the AR magazine will put the front of the bullet bearing surface deep into the neck. The only thing preventing bullet setback would be the heavily compressed load you'll need to run. This is not a good plan. The 80 grain ELDm is 0.180" longer than the 77 grain CC you're running and 0.074" longer than the 80 grain CC that Smoothy is already single loading.

I shot the 77 SMKs loaded to AR mag length for years. It's a great bullet for turning a fair number of common guns into entertaining cheap to shoot long range guns. The 77 CC is a near copy so I expect the performance will be similar.

The 75 - 88 ELDm loaded long to feed from AICS magazines gives a very significant boost over the 77s at long ranges. I'm shooting the 75s because they penciled out better than the 80s for what I'm doing and the 88s looked like they'd be sketchy at the altitude I shoot at with a 1:7.

I mostly shoot steel at 1200 - 2300 yards. The 77s work but are done at 1200. I've shot the 75s to a mile, but it's pretty much a stunt at that point. 5 round cleans on a 18x24" target at 1200 yards are not uncommon with the 75s out of the RPR.

What exactly does outperform mean to you?

[BigBronco]

ShaunBrady. I really appreciate the answers you have given with the info. I guess out perform would be tighter groups. 100 yds for load development then on to 500 yds plus for shooting. I love shooting 500 or more. I am no expert at long distance. It just feels more like an accomplishment. Will be working up loads for my K31 as well. The 300WM just beats me up too much.

[ShaunBrady]

It's the "or more" that's going to cost you in the end.

Even at 500 yards, the effect of a 25% boost in BC should be obvious.

The numbers I like to compare when deciding if it's worth testing a new bullet are the difference in 2 mph worth of wind and the distance to 1000 fps. If it looks worthwhile in the solver, I'll load up 50 of each and test them side by side after developing load data for the new bullet.

The rational is you should be able to develop the skill to judge winds up to maybe 8-10 mph in 2 mph increments with about a years practice if you shoot once a month and pay attention to what's going on.

Testing them side by side at the actual distance you'll be using them is a good idea for a few reasons.

The first is shooting at distance is going to have good days and bad days because of varying conditions. Regular competition helps because even if your score drops, where you landed in the pack will give some idea how things went if everybody shoots at the same time. If you're not shooting a standard course with the same bunch of guys every month, then shooting 5-10 of your current load against 5-10 of the new bullet provides a similar effect. Do it several times switching the order.

The combined reason for shooting them far enough to get the velocity down to 1000 fps is it'll let you know fast if the bullet transitions or has large BC variations. There were a lot of bullets introduced in the last 10 years that had great BCs but were useless at 1000 yards because they won't hold vertical.

First time's free, so I'll just tell you how this one will go because I've used similar bullets. The 77 smk was developed to provide a long range AR Mag fed 223 bullet. I've shot it down to 900 fps and it's amazing to watch. The nose is 50's technology, but that's all there's room for in that magazine. The tail is mid '90s technology developed by Sierra and the military in the 175 smk. The 175 was developed specifically to transition well. The 77 CC you've been using is a near enough copy of the 77 smk that it was used in Mk262 ammo for awhile.

So that 77 is a tough act to follow if you're stuck with 223 in an AR magazine.

The Hornady 75, 80, and 88 ELDm all have the same nose on them. The nose is far more aerodynamic than the SMK or CC because they're not trying to fit in the AR magazine anymore. I can tell you that the 75s transition well with a 1:7 barrel. The 80s are not much longer and the Sg looks solid so I'd expect them to as well.

The Hornady 4DOF app also works very well for everything Hornady.

[ShaunBrady]

Will be working up loads for my K31 as well.

Enjoy those young eyes while you have them.

The 300WM just beats me up too much.

Even with an aggressive brake, 15# is probably about as low as you'll want to go with a 300WM long range toy. I did this one as a if I knew then what I know now project with a 5R I picked up cheap during a Black Friday sale a few years ago.



After weight and aggressive brake, ergonomics really matter. Length has been added to the stock with spacers and thicker recoil pad. The scope height is set to put the recoil pad at the right height for prone shooting. The cheek riser is adjusted by cutting the foam insert and having my wife resew it. Mouse pad slices and duct tape work too. The scope position is set so the vignetting just goes away as I load the stock into my shoulder. Having the gun recoil through the eyebox rather than out the end of it helps with follow through and your sense that you have control of things.

Savage sells long range guns with a Leggo stock that captures these features a lot cheaper than paying someone to do it. The RPR is the easy button though and the faster twist allows better bullets.

The 1:10 twist in the 5R limits the bullets to 215 Hybrids. This gun is shot to a mile several times a year.

[BigBronco]

^^ OH the eyes are no longer young. I am retired in my 60's. My 300 WM is a Belgian Browning Safari. I need to put a scope on it. Probably should put a scope on it as well. I have a box full of scopes.

By the way thanks for all the info.. but for now I will be sticking with the Nosler cc's as I just found the 500 I had while re organizing me ammo cans after moving to AZ. I will get some Hornadys to compare for when I run out.