45-70 Gov: Full Length Sizing Die

[RCGunDude]

Question, im starting to reload for my 1895 Marlin and had a question after setting up my FL sizing die. Im not used to straight wall cases...

Pic Attached.

I raised the ram fully, screwed the die down and snugged it up once the die touched the shell holder.

I ran a case in no problem but then noticed when I removed the case that my RCBS die was applying a small taper to the end of the case? Its several. 001's smaller toward the top.

Is this normal? I understand I need to expand the neck slightly to seat a bullet, but I dont see any taper or necking down on my factory Winchester loads.

Im using .459 FNRP 300 gr bullets.

The expander obviously flares the case slightly for loading but this then leaves a slight detent / bulge where the bullet is seated. You can see where the bullet stops because its seated about 70% down the area that was tapered by the FL sizing die.

Made an empty dummy round and it cycles just fine, no witness marks or scratches on the brass after testing it chambers.

Just curious.

Thanks!

[Dirtlaw]

Keep us apprised of your progress and any "ah" moments you discover along the way. That is a round I want to start playing with as well.

[sofbak]

I'd be more concerned about the *rings* formed near the case mouth.
What did that?

[RCGunDude]

I'd be more concerned about the *rings* formed near the case mouth.
What did that?

that's just the marks from Winchester factory, these are pretty hot and have a hefty crimp.

pic attached

Ok so I pulled my factory loads out. Looks like I just didn't notice the 45-70 tapers slightly. I took my calipers to the Winchester SuperX loads I have. Im reloading these once-fired cases.

Pics attached. Tapers down about. 01"

would highly recommend 45-70. my AR rounds bounce of my AR500 1/2" steel targets with little damage aaaaaand these 45-70 leap tip hollow points leave a small pot mart on the steels. ha!

[heavyhaulin818]

I started out using RCBS COWBOY DIES and REDDING DIES but found myself liking my HORNADY CUSTOM GRADE DIES in conjunction with the LYMAN M (LARGE) die and the LEE FACTORY CRIM DIE. I also use the REDDING profile crimp die for FTX.

[maxx03]

Perfectly normal. The .45-70 SAMMI drawing shows a slight taper from.505 near the rim to .480 at the case mouth. The case will now have to be flared in order to receive a bullet.
That taper is to aid in feeding into the chamber.

[diverwcw]

would highly recommend 45-70. my AR rounds bounce of my AR500 1/2" steel targets with little damage aaaaaand these 45-70 leap tip hollow points leave a small pot mart on the steels. ha!

I've been a 45-70 afficinado for quite awhile (I have three of them now). Seems to me I've read that it's been in production longer than any other caliber. My brother used to joke that long after the 223/5.56 goes obsolete the 45-70 will still be going strong.

[RCGunDude]

Perfectly normal. The .45-70 SAMMI drawing shows a slight taper from.505 near the rim to .480 at the case mouth. The case will now have to be flared in order to receive a bullet.
That taper is to aid in feeding into the chamber.

got it. Seems legit. The dummy round I made did chamber nice and smoothly.
I'm using powder-coated bullets and only slightly flared the case mouth.
Seated nicely and I didn't shave off any excess material from the bullet, I popped the bullet off to check afterwards.

thanks for the intel.

[jcourson]

Looks like I just didn't notice the 45-70 tapers slightly.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, I think that a lot of re-loaders get caught off guard that a "straight walled" case is tapered.

I love my 1895.

[tsoso]

I like using 3031 and 4198 you should try those powders out and don’t load them too hot or you will have a sore shoulder the next day

[divingin]

Question, im starting to reload for my 1895 Marlin and had a question after setting up my FL sizing die. Im not used to straight wall cases...

45-70 has a slight taper.

I raised the ram fully, screwed the die down and snugged it up once the die touched the shell holder.

If I were you, I'd back the die off. Size based on chamber fit, not die-to-press fit. Take a fired case and incrementally size the case until it fits the chamber without resistance (assuming you had resistance to begin with. If not, size until you get the interference fit you want to hold the bullet.) This will minimize both working the brass, and reduce the bullet bulge when seating.

I ran a case in no problem but then noticed when I removed the case that my RCBS die was applying a small taper to the end of the case? Its several. 001's smaller toward the top.

Probably from oversizing. I'd guess you're pushing the case further into the die than it's supposed to go.

FWIW, the bullet bulge is cosmetic (all other things being equal.) It's due to the brass being sized slightly smaller/or to different dimensions than factory (to ensure chambering in all firearms), coupled with possibly slightly larger diameter bullets. As long as the bulge doesn't preclude chambering, it'll be fine.

[tanks]

I am about to start hand loading the 45-70. How much of a crimp do you guys apply?

[RCGunDude]

45-70 has a slight taper.



If I were you, I'd back the die off. Size based on chamber fit, not die-to-press fit. Take a fired case and incrementally size the case until it fits the chamber without resistance (assuming you had resistance to begin with. If not, size until you get the interference fit you want to hold the bullet.) This will minimize both working the brass, and reduce the bullet bulge when seating.




Probably from oversizing. I'd guess you're pushing the case further into the die than it's supposed to go.

FWIW, the bullet bulge is cosmetic (all other things being equal.) It's due to the brass being sized slightly smaller/or to different dimensions than factory (to ensure chambering in all firearms), coupled with possibly slightly larger diameter bullets. As long as the bulge doesn't preclude chambering, it'll be fine.

ok good tips. I'll take these into consideration. Still waiting on my gauge to come in, then ill start dialing in the correct sizing for my 1895.

[RCGunDude]

I have IMR-4198 currently and have decided on 35.5gr for a 300gr Cast-Hi Tek coated bullets per the Lyman loading book.

Does this sound ok for a range day plinking load??


Thanks!

[RCGunDude]

I am about to start hand loading the 45-70. How much of a crimp do you guys apply?

I would say at least a couple .001's just to be on the safe side. A lotta recoil in this round. Dont want them getting pushed in the case more under fire.

I'd start on the border of medium / heavy crimp and test a couple to make sure they are staying put.

Defer to any with greater experience with 45-70 though.