forming 6.5x50 from 308....Super easy!!

[Geofois]

Hey guys,
I'll probably get an Arisaka 6.5x50 for my bday and I have 243 brass. I've read we need a die body to take the body down then run it through the 6.5x50 die. Is that die body sold anywhere. I googled but it doesn't seem to like me today. Has anyone formed 6.5x50 brass? 308 can be used but needs a couple more steps I think. I got tons of that.

[pacrat]

Hey guys,
I'll probably get an Arisaka 6.5x50 for my bday and I have 243 brass. I've read we need a die body to take the body down then run it through the 6.5x50 die. Is that die body sold anywhere. I googled but it doesn't seem to like me today. Has anyone formed 6.5x50 brass? 308 can be used but needs a couple more steps I think. I got tons of that.

243 parent case is the 308. Keep your 243 brass since you're fabbing cases any way.

John Donnelly's book of cartridge conversions says to start with 270 brass.

1] ... SWAGE to .447". Are you set up to swage cases?

2] ... Size in 6.5x50 die with expander removed.

3] ... Trim to length

4] ... Ream ID of neck. Are you set up to ream necks?

5] ''' FL size in 6.5x50 die with expander installed.

6] ... Fireform

But technique/tooling adjustments would work to use 308 or 243 cases since they are fatter [same as 270 @ base]. And a bit longer @ shoulder than 6.5.

Here is a case dim drawing of the 6.5x50. https://4drentals.com/product/6-5-japanese-arisaka/

SAAMI doesn't list it. Nor does CIP.

Suggest you anneal before starting, and after each operation, or you're gonna lose a lot of cases.



Which Arisaka ya gonna get, a Type 30 or a 38?

[Divernhunter]

Or check with Graf and Sons. They sometimes have loaded ammo that is not pricy and the brass is good for reloading. They also sometimes have brass

[Geofois]

243 parent case is the 308. Keep your 243 brass since you're fabbing cases any way.

John Donnelly's book of cartridge conversions says to start with 270 brass.

1] ... SWAGE to .447". Are you set up to swage cases?

2] ... Size in 6.5x50 die with expander removed.

3] ... Trim to length

4] ... Ream ID of neck. Are you set up to ream necks?

5] ''' FL size in 6.5x50 die with expander installed.

6] ... Fireform

But technique/tooling adjustments would work to use 308 or 243 cases since they are fatter [same as 270 @ base]. And a bit longer @ shoulder than 6.5.

Here is a case dim drawing of the 6.5x50. https://4drentals.com/product/6-5-japanese-arisaka/

SAAMI doesn't list it. Nor does CIP.

Suggest you anneal before starting, and after each operation, or you're gonna lose a lot of cases.



Which Arisaka ya gonna get, a Type 30 or a 38?

My brother sent me the pictures but I'm pretty sure it's a 38. Has the same Japaniese letters with the 2 holes and the flower as what I saw when I googled on the top of the receiver.

When I was researching it was said 260 is the easier to convert but 243 was pretty easy. I think because it's close enough in neck size so we don't need to ream. I'm not set up to ream unless there is a diy method that can involve a drill but that might be a little mickey mouse-ish. I don't shoot 243 so wasn't worried about that brass. I also read lots of the 6.5x50 brass will only last a couple reloads so better to use converted brass and it won't bulge and crack open. Maybe because it's being swaged down? I have lots of spare 308. Maybe I get get my lightest 308 cases and see. Winchester is pretty thin so maybe doesn't need to be reamed? I probably won't have it for a couple weeks so I can see if anyone here as some brass or I'll look for some more 243 laying at the range.

I am not set up to swage cases so where do I get the die body to take it to .447? I reload a ton of calibers in case one that I have can do it but I probably don't just happen to have the right die.

I do have a Forster neck trimmer and I see they sell a neck reamer for it.

https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/standard-neck-reamers/

[Geofois]

Copied this from another discussion. I have a lot of PPU 303 once fired brass but I hate to mess that up. I have 44 mag dies and 303 dies so maybe I'll try doing one case and see. I would seem like I can run some Winchester 308 brass through my 303 die and get the base to .460" then neck size to .264". I wonder if that would then chamber and fire form. Probably still need to ream the neck but maybe it depends on how generous the neck part of the chamber is in the rifle and if thin Winchester brass is thin enough.

I have messed with the 6.5 Jap brass a good bit. Here is what I learned.

1. The back end of the 6.5 Jap chambers are about .460.
When factory brass is fired it forms a huge bulge because Norma brass measures .446-.447.
I don't care for the bulge and I made brass out of 7.62 Nato LC 66 Match brass. I used an open top steel .44 Mag die that had been polished out. I also used a Herters .303 die to squeeze the heads too. It took 3 or 4 passes and is very hard on loading presses unless you have something like and A2. I used a Rock Chucker but I would have been happer with a heavier press.
I used the Nato brass because I have a lot of it and it requires a lot less trimming.

>>>>What ever you do do not do all that work swaging heads to .447 because that is about .010 to .012 too small.<<<<


2. I think the best brass to use might be PPU .303 brass. It measures .454 ahead of the rim. Form and size using the big fat .303 rim. Trim to length. Turn the rim and extractor groove to work in your rifle. I would much rather turn the rims than do all that head swaging.

[pacrat]

Your Forester trimmer will work for the required reaming. I have 2 of them.

2. I think the best brass to use might be PPU .303 brass. It measures .454 ahead of the rim. Form and size using the big fat .303 rim. Trim to length. Turn the rim and extractor groove to work in your rifle. I would much rather turn the rims than do all that head swaging.

Ya Gotta lathe? If not forget about using any rimmed case.

Most 6.5 Arisakas are the type 38. I have a T-30, which looks nothing like a 38. It has a Pinky Hook safety on the cocking piece.

[Geofois]

The forster is a great trimmer especially since I use my drill with it. The reamer for it is out of stock on midsouth but Forster seems to have it in stock.

I don't have a lathe =(. Someone said we can put a case in the drill and spin it to take down the rim but seems like using 308 is better. I have so much it's free.

[ar15barrels]

Copied this from another discussion. I have a lot of PPU 303 once fired brass but I hate to mess that up. I have 44 mag dies and 303 dies so maybe I'll try doing one case and see. I would seem like I can run some Winchester 308 brass through my 303 die and get the base to .460" then neck size to .264". I wonder if that would then chamber and fire form. Probably still need to ream the neck but maybe it depends on how generous the neck part of the chamber is in the rifle and if thin Winchester brass is thin enough.

I don't think the 6.5 Japanese actually headspaces on the rim.
The rim is just there for the extractor.
If that's the case, then you need an actual shoulder to headspace on to get the cases to stop correctly in the chamber.
That means you need a proper 6.5 jap die and you need a longer case to push the shoulder back.
270 brass makes good sense.

Also, on the topic of resizing case heads, you normally won't be able to do that in a standard reloading die because the standard reloading die has a chamfer at the mouth that will not size a case all the way down.

You normally use a push-through die to size down case heads and that means you can not do rimmed cases because the rims won't fit.
To do rimmed cases, you need some sort of collet system in a press that cen generate enough force to re-form the case head.
Then afterwards, you will have to re-cut the primer pocket if it shrunk and trim the rims to correct dimensions on a lathe.

[Geofois]

I was wondering where the shoulder on a 308 starts vs a 6.5x50. I'll check the diagrams. Sounds like the 6.5 is higher than the 308 is what you're saying. The case length on a 308 is slightly longer than the 6.5 but the 6.5 shoulder is farther from the case head. I will run it through the 6.5 die but do you think it won't fire form correctly?

I have 4000 swedish blanks I'm using for my swede. I haven't even thought if I can use those primed cases for the Arisaka. They need to be swaged down also but after swaging can they go right into a 6.5x50 sizing die? The shoulder on the swedish brass starts at 1.712" and with the arisaka its 1.531 so the swedish brass is long enough. The 308 cases the shoulder starts at 1.560 so just slightly farther away than the arisaka cases but it's a steeper shoulder so as you said the datum might be already too low. Many use that brass to convert so maybe the datum is fine?

Swede Rim diameter .473"
head .475" so need to swage that down a bit. I would like to leave it generous for the chamber which is .460" so I probably answered my question, nope can't do that in the 6.5x50 die. Also no way to leave the case head out to .460" and use the 6.5x50 die to bring the shoulder down.

[pacrat]

The 6.5-A, 308, and 243 all have 20 degree shoulders. Not an issue.

I wish 4-D still had case and reamer specs on their website. They were a great online source of drawings.

If the fella you quoted is reliable on his dims a 44 mag sizer die will work as a sacrificial "push through". 44 mag is .456" base, ahead of rim.

I suggest before you start the ammo convert project. You get the rifle in hand. And cast the chamber. That will give you a definitive baseline on which you can make determinations on how to proceed.

[ar15barrels]

I was wondering where the shoulder on a 308 starts vs a 6.5x50. I'll check the diagrams. Sounds like the 6.5 is higher than the 308 is what you're saying. The case length on a 308 is slightly longer than the 6.5 but the 6.5 shoulder is farther from the case head. I will run it through the 6.5 die but do you think it won't fire form correctly?

I looked at the diagrams and 308 would work.
The hard part is going to be re-forming the case head down to 0.460".

The 308 shoulder is a little longer than the 6.5x50 so the 6.5x50 sizing die should locate the shoulder correctly.
You will need to anneal the cases and ideally you would do the sizing in multiple steps so as not to crease the cases while re-forming them.
The sizing dies to do that correctly will cost you more than some loaded ammo or new cases.

You would want to re-form the case head BEFORE you reform the rest of the case.

You might look into a rollsizer to re-form the case heads above the rim.

[Geofois]

That's a good idea pacrat. For the heck of it I ran the lightest 308 156g case through my 303 die without the neck expander and brought the case head to .460". The shoulder is just barely too long but I have a junk 308 die that I can't use due to a scratch inside and the expander part is bent. I can grind off some of the end and use it to bump the neck down to exactly where the arisaka will engage. Then just need to neck size down. Theoretically it should chamber just fine and fireform. Only issue would be if the lightest brass will need to be reamed. I'd make one dummy round and check.

Edit: Immediated above the rim it does measure .463" so I'd want to grind a case holder to let it go in just a couple hundredths more to get that last tiny bit. It might still chamber fine so maybe I'd test it before doing that. Not sure the exact chamber dimensions of the rifle I'm getting. If I grind the case holder I might not need to grind the junk 308 die.

[pacrat]

That's a good idea pacrat. For the heck of it I ran the lightest 308 156g case through my 303 die without the neck expander and brought the case head to .460". The shoulder is just barely too long but I have a junk 308 die that I can't use due to a scratch inside and the expander part is bent. I can grind off some of the end and use it to bump the neck down to exactly where the arisaka will engage. Then just need to neck size down. Theoretically it should chamber just fine and fireform. Only issue would be if the lightest brass will need to be reamed. I'd make one dummy round and check.

Edit: Immediated above the rim it does measure .463" so I'd want to grind a case holder to let it go in just a couple hundredths more to get that last tiny bit. It might still chamber fine so maybe I'd test it before doing that. Not sure the exact chamber dimensions of the rifle I'm getting. If I grind the case holder I might not need to grind the junk 308 die.

Dude, ya really need a chill pill and pump the brakes. You're all over the place and don't even have the rifle yet. You haven't said, but I'm guessing you don't have the 6.5A dies either.

Now as to the bolded. The 308 case shoulder is .455" dia. And the Jap 6.5 is .417". NF'nW that is gonna fit. No matter how much KY you slather it with.

Squeezing a .308 hole down to .264. Yeah you gonna need to ream.

[FLIGHT762]

You're creating a S**t show for yourself. If you feel you really NEED to reload for that rifle, buy some proper brass.

6.5 Arisaka chambers vary enough where some older Norma 6.5 Arasaka brass didn't fit well.

Graf's has brass.

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/75151

[Geofois]

Dude, ya really need a chill pill and pump the brakes. You're all over the place and don't even have the rifle yet. You haven't said, but I'm guessing you don't have the 6.5A dies either.

Now as to the bolded. The 308 case shoulder is .455" dia. And the Jap 6.5 is .417". NF'nW that is gonna fit. No matter how much KY you slather it with.

Squeezing a .308 hole down to .264. Yeah you gonna need to ream.

Hehehehe I can always rely on you to be the least chill guy in the comments. Not sure what all over the place is and needing to pump brakes. Just chatting here on calguns for people that have made cases from other cases but maybe that's crazy? I have a trillion(little less than a trillion) 308 cases so it's not traveling at the speed of light to check someone's advice on running it through a 303 die to see if it truly does swage. That doesn't seem like going too fast or all over the place to me.

As I discovered while going way to fast was that the 303 die did in fact reduce the case head and did reduce the shoulder. It took it to .407" so a little too much but once it then gets put through a 6.5 die and bump the shoulder back a little it would come out maybe but as long as it chambers fine and the datum seats in the chamber and neck fits then it should fire form. Ideally a 44mag die that is open at the top would be better.

I'll probably need to order the Forster reamer that fits into my trimmer, no biggie.

I'm just teasing you about your comments