Share your load workup procedure!

[Hans Gruber]

So.

I scored some Varget and some 175NCCs and I'd like to work up a load with these guys. I'm thinking about trying the ladder this time.

Any of you guys try it? How does it compare to simply loading 5 rounds per charge weight, shooting it all and picking the smallest group? I'd like to reduce the number of components I blow through finding the best combo if possible.

What do you guys do?

[ness395]

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

This is a very comprehensive and informative article on the ladder method.

I used the ladder method for developing a 69 gr load for my AR-15. It's really interesting to find the "accuracy window" where the vertical dispersion nearly goes away. I had no idea that you could get away with upwards of 0.3 gr deviations between rounds and still have nearly the same point of impact.

[popeye4]

Define "the ladder" for me.

If you mean incrementing the load from the minimum to the maximum at, say, 0.2 grains per increment, then yes, I use that method. I've found that the impact location will climb (as predicted) until a cluster develops for a few rounds, then the impacts will start to diverge again. This gives me a "sweet spot" to continue development within. I always confirm this "sweet spot" with follow up loads, but it has worked well for me. BTW, the "sweet spot" is usually a ways away from the maximum load.

See the attached target. Yes, that group is four holes, shot with an M14 at 100 yds from prone. The load varied from 37.2 grains to 38.0 grains of VV N135. It's a keeper (in that particular gun), at least for short line. BTW, the next 5 shots weren't a whole lot more dispersed (they were also clustered in the same spot on the target, but they didn't quite touch each other), so in that gun I really have about a 2 grain window with that particular powder/bullet combination. Makes loading on a progressive (with the resultant variation in charge from the powder dispenser) much more positive.

Of course, sometimes a "sweet spot" never develops, or when I load up a 10 round "confirmation" batch the dispersion gets bigger, so this isn't foolproof. But then, perhaps the lack of a "sweet spot" is telling us something about the incompatibility of that particular powder in that particular gun.

[buffybuster]

If you're going to do a ladder test, I'd recommend that you have a chronograph, a good solid position and a longer range. Refer to your loading manuals and you're going to need about a 4gr range from starting load to max. Presuming you're doing development on a .308Win you could start at a 0.3gr increment. So, let say you start at 40.0gr, then 40.3, 40.6, 40.9, 41.2, so on...

It REALLY important that you have a highly accurate scale and a solid shooting position. Load one round each at each increment. At the range, chronograph each shot and record EXACTLY where it hits (not important how close to POA). As you shoot, some load increments will cluster together. If the velocity is adequate, then locate the median load weight. If the velocity is not adequate then keep going up, hopefully to the next node before you hit max.

I usually do this on two separate targets to minimize shooter error and it's better to shoot 200-300yd (at 100yd the shots sometimes too close together to decipher).

http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

It's really important to mark each shot. The shots usually walk vertically and shot group together at certain nodes. Once you select/locate a node, you can finetune with seating depth. But that's the best your rifle is going to shoot that given load (case, powder, primer, bullet). The advantage that I see is the lower number of rounds to locate a load.

[popeye4]

I usually do this on two separate targets to minimize shooter error and it's better to shoot 200-300yd (at 100yd the shots sometimes too close together to decipher).

I agree to a point. I confirm results from my ladder tests at the 200 and 300 yd range, but for convenience sake I do a lot of my initial load development at a 100 yd range (it is 20 minutes away vs. 1.5 hours for the 300 yd range). Not ideal, but it is a compromise I've had to make.

Another issue is that bullets may tend to yaw a bit as the distances get greater. A great shooting load at 100 yds might not be so good at 300 yds as the instability starts to show up. I believe Zediker says in his handloading book that this instability starts to show itself somewhat past the 100 yd point.

[swerv512]

A great shooting load at 100 yds might not be so good at 300 yds as the instability starts to show up. I believe Zediker says in his handloading book that this instability starts to show itself somewhat past the 100 yd point.

true... but i've rarely seen a load in my case 168, 175, 190gr .308 SMK that doesn't perform equally if not better at 200 yards versus 100 yards. i guess 600 would be the true equalizer of all things in my case.

[Hans Gruber]

Yeah, the 6mmbr ladder test is what I'm talking about. I'm planning on shooting at 200 yards as that's as far out as I can set up paper at Angeles. I do have a chronograph.

I'm glad that others have had success with this technique. I'm tired of blowing through so many materials to work up a new load.

[popeye4]

true... but i've rarely seen a load in my case 168, 175, 190gr .308 SMK that doesn't perform equally if not better at 200 yards versus 100 yards. i guess 600 would be the true equalizer of all things in my case.

Well, in another section of the same book, he mentions that some long range loads don't really stabilize until they are downrange of 100 yds. I guess the point is that there's nothing like testing at the range you want to do well at! Unfortunately, I can count the number of ranges that are both within a day's drive and have 600 yd ranges on my thumbs (and they are both more than 3 hours away).

[ar15barrels]

Yeah, the 6mmbr ladder test is what I'm talking about. I'm planning on shooting at 200 yards as that's as far out as I can set up paper at Angeles. I do have a chronograph.

I'm glad that others have had success with this technique. I'm tired of blowing through so many materials to work up a new load.

We can set paper to 500yds at the spot.

[Jonathan Doe]

When I test a new load, I load at least 20 rounds+ for each lot. Need about 10 rounds for chronograph, more for actual firing for accuracy tests.

[LexLuther]

Does anyone have a similar method for handgun ammo, or do you use the same thing?

[LGB Loader]

We can set paper to 500yds at the spot.

I've been out to the tree (400 Yds) once. when I came back in, i had a couple of the boys giving me some hard stares... 200 yards is cool enough I guess.


LGB

[ar15barrels]

I've been out to the tree (400 Yds) once. when I came back in, i had a couple of the boys giving me some hard stares... 200 yards is cool enough I guess.

What?

Our 400yd target is not near a tree.

[popeye4]

I've been out to the tree (400 Yds) once. when I came back in, i had a couple of the boys giving me some hard stares... 200 yards is cool enough I guess.


LGB

200 yds is the short range target in across the course highpower. BTW, the 600 yd target is considered medium range....