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  • Snoopy47
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2010
    • 3885

    I think this will stump everyone

    OK folks,

    I'm hoping to figure out what is going on here, and I've exhausted my other google research.

    I've been loading for a compensated G34, and taking slow motion video in my chase for the perfect flat shooting Open Gun. That said, I've tested a lot of loads from barely functioning with an 11lb recoil all the way up to OEM recoil and nearly ripping my hand off.

    I have seen the results of unburnt powder before in various different powders. Never have I seen anything like this. I absolutely know this is coming out of the gun. I can see it floating down slowly from the ejection port in my slow motion video.

    It has the texture of say a Cobweb, or Cotton Candy. This is an unusually larger piece, and most of them were much smaller, and very much resembled a dandelion seed once it's floating in the air.

    Data:
    VV N350 - this I suspect is the root cause, but I don't know why other than it just does this when it's unburnt.

    124 FMJ

    1.14 OAL

    Primer = Sellier & Bellot

    Now, I am pointing all fingers to N350. The primers, brass, and my OAL are common to my other tested loads and this never happened with other powders to include 800X, N320, and 3N38.

    I'm just sharing at this point if anyone else has seen this with N350, and I intend to go back and test N350 with a shortened OAL, but this was happening across the board from charge weights from 4.8gn all the way up to 7.0gn. So I don't think it's a matter of simply running a hotter load.

    I also am thinking of taking a small amount of N350 and just lighting it on fire to see what happens.


    Final disclosure:
    I bought this bottle from a fellow CGer from the market place. We did a Face to Face hand off, and the bottle is the current version branding (it can't be very old), and I was the one that broke the seal on the bottle.

    So if it's a function of bad powder it's more than likely a manufacturing problem.

    Performance wise, my various loads functioned in the expected manner from light charges to heavy charges. There wasn't random strange results from a light load shooting heavy in my hand or a heavy load shooting soft in my hand.

    Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.
  • #2
    hermosabeach
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Feb 2009
    • 19574

    Please post the video to Youtube
    Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

    Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

    Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

    Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
    (thanks to Jeff Cooper)

    Comment

    • #3
      tabascoz28
      Veteran Member
      • Mar 2016
      • 3364

      That is crazy, like spiderman. How big is that mess?
      I'd imagine it would be like in The Thing, where once it touches fire it jumps! Skip to 5 minute mark.

      Last edited by tabascoz28; 10-06-2021, 12:46 PM.

      Comment

      • #4
        noylj
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2010
        • 713

        Contact VV
        Contact Vihtavuori by filling in the form below. Before submitting your feedback, please be sure to also read our Privacy Policy for more

        Comment

        • #5
          LynnJr
          Calguns Addict
          • Jan 2013
          • 7958

          It looks like you were shooting light loads and that is the unburned cellulose from the powder.
          Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
          Southwest Regional Director
          Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
          www.unlimitedrange.org
          Not a commercial business.
          URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

          Comment

          • #6
            Snoopy47
            Veteran Member
            • Aug 2010
            • 3885

            Originally posted by LynnJr
            It looks like you were shooting light loads and that is the unburned cellulose from the powder.
            I like this answer the best.

            When I get out again with these loads I'll make a more focused effort to visually document it, and at which load weights it occurs and what occurs.

            The sizes of residue vary.

            I do like to push the limits of light loads, and I've done it with VV N320, and 3N38 and got nothing like this. So I will reach out to VV, because perhaps this is a result of a manufacturing process that either has changed or gone out of spec.
            Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.

            Comment

            • #7
              ar15barrels
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Jan 2006
              • 57143

              Originally posted by Snoopy47
              I have seen the results of unburnt powder before in various different powders. Never have I seen anything like this.
              I absolutely know this is coming out of the gun.
              I can see it floating down slowly from the ejection port in my slow motion video.

              It has the texture of say a Cobweb, or Cotton Candy.
              This is an unusually larger piece, and most of them were much smaller, and very much resembled a dandelion seed once it's floating in the air.



              Load is too light to properly burn the powder.
              Randall Rausch

              AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
              Handguns: www.handgunbarrels.com
              Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
              Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
              Most work done while you wait on a scheduled shop visit.

              Comment

              • #8
                Snoopy47
                Veteran Member
                • Aug 2010
                • 3885



                Here's the best video I managed to catch. You can see what looks like a dandelion seed floating down from the top center of the video after the shot.
                Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.

                Comment

                • #9
                  ar15barrels
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 57143

                  Originally posted by Snoopy47
                  https://youtu.be/7tkQF4jgyXs

                  Here's the best video I managed to catch. You can see what looks like a dandelion seed floating down from the top center of the video after the shot.
                  Are you sure that's not ceiling insulation from your comp disrupting the ceiling?
                  Randall Rausch

                  AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
                  Handguns: www.handgunbarrels.com
                  Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
                  Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
                  Most work done while you wait on a scheduled shop visit.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    smoothy8500
                    Veteran Member
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 3846

                    Originally posted by ar15barrels
                    Are you sure that's not ceiling insulation from your comp disrupting the ceiling?
                    Seems the most plausible theory.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Milsurp1
                      Veteran Member
                      • Aug 2016
                      • 3091

                      I agree with Randall. The white debris never goes up from the gun, it begins above the video frame and first makes its appearance coming downward.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        LynnJr
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 7958

                        After seeing the video I also agree with Randall that it looks like ceiling falling down.
                        Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
                        Southwest Regional Director
                        Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
                        www.unlimitedrange.org
                        Not a commercial business.
                        URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Snoopy47
                          Veteran Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 3885

                          Originally posted by ar15barrels
                          Are you sure that's not ceiling insulation from your comp disrupting the ceiling?
                          To counter that, this one of many many times at the range with this set up, and I usually use the same couple of lanes.

                          Never happened before.
                          Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Mikes748
                            Junior Member
                            • Jun 2021
                            • 56

                            Likely ceiling material. What is that chicken wire on the ceiling holding up?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Milsurp1
                              Veteran Member
                              • Aug 2016
                              • 3091

                              Reach up to the ceiling before you begin firing. Pluck a sample with your fingers and compare the two.

                              Comment

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