.308 small base seating die needed?

[bigbossman]

I have an M1A and a Winchester Model 70 in .308. I have been using a Redding competition die set for years, and it has completely filled my needs..... until now.

I recently came into a match prepped M1 Garand chambered in .308, and I'm having issues. I took it out for a spin, and the action would get jammed up with my reloads. The rounds go almost all the way into the chamber, but with about 1/2" to go they stop. I can force them in, but then I have to pry them out. These reloads feed fine in my M1A and M70.

When I got home I took the rifle apart, stripped the bolt, turned my sizer die as far down as I could, and resized a couple pieces of brass. They now go almost all the way in, and with a bit of thumb pressure I can get the bolt to close on the brass. I'm going to load up a few rounds with the newly resized brass and see if they cycle OK, but I'm thinking that this is precisely the situation that calls for a SB sizing die.

Any other ideas?

[tabascoz28]

I just learned about shoulder bump, what kind of press do you have?

For example, my lee turret doesn't have enough power or cam to make full use of my die but the Rock Chucker pushed the shoulder in .01 which is 10x too much.

Also, maybe something is stuck in the chamber, look at the brass that came out of it. 1/2 inch is a lot. Maybe the throat of the lands are really close for the bullet profile?

When I got my gun the spring was done, it was like 2 inches shorter than the new one I bought. A new spring made it not jam anymore but I never had an issue getting a bullet into the chamber.

Also I have one made in 2007 by Springfield. New parts with old. Fun gun!

[pacrat]

OP, time for "Back to Basics" process of elimination.

MarksAlot of few of the No-go cases and try to chamber again.

Most likely they will have scuffed coating around base. Which confirms that that particular rifle needs a SB sizer.

Maybe time to segregate cases for the Garand.

BTW; I think you meant.

.308 small base seating sizing die needed?

[FLIGHT762]

Unless you are doing some measuring at the shoulder datum and at the case web, you are just guessing as to what the issue is. You ned to do some measuring.

I only NEEDED a S/B die once, for a very tight chambered Steyr SSG 69. The issue was not at the datum, but the case web. A Redding S/B Body die took the case web down enough (a RCBS S/B die wouldn't do it). That is what a S/B die is for. That SSG69 wouldn't chamber any case that had a web larger than .4685". The Redding S/B die did it.

All of the other times I had issues getting F/L sized cases to chamber in a rifle, the issue was the case shoulder not being pushed back enough and an adjustment of turning the die down a little more took care of the issue.

Using a comparator at the datum will show you exactly what is going on there.

[bigbossman]

Also, maybe something is stuck in the chamber, look at the brass that came out of it. 1/2 inch is a lot. Maybe the throat of the lands are really close for the bullet profile?

Nothing stuck in the chamber, and it's not a bullet issue because I'm only using resized brass - no bullet. The brass casing sticks at the web as it is inserted into the chamber.

OP, time for "Back to Basics" process of elimination.

MarksAlot of few of the No-go cases and try to chamber again.

Most likely they will have scuffed coating around base. Which confirms that that particular rifle needs a SB sizer.

Maybe time to segregate cases for the Garand.

Yes - I meant SB Sizing die, not seater. Sharpie/Marksalot..... a simple test that I know.... and forgot. Thanks for reminding me. Just did it, and it tells the tale..... lots of scuffing around the web.

U
I only NEEDED a S/B die once, for a very tight chambered Steyr SSG 69. The issue was not at the datum, but the case web. A Redding S/B Body die took the case web down enough (a RCBS S/B die wouldn't do it). That is what a S/B die is for. That SSG69 wouldn't chamber any case that had a web larger than .4685". The Redding S/B die did it.

All of the other times I had issues getting F/L sized cases to chamber in a rifle, the issue was the case shoulder not being pushed back enough and an adjustment of turning the die down a little more took care of the issue.

See above - Sharpie trick seems to confirm the issue is at the web end..... which is a good thing, because the die sizing die is screwed as far down as it's gonna go.

I just dug out a set of Forster Bonanza Bench Rest dies, and with the sizer die screwed all the way down the brass chambers with just a little thumb pressure. So close. I'm going to load up a handful of rounds and function test it tomorrow. If I get only partial lug lockup I won't fire the gun, and if I get short strokes because of sticking cases, I'll start shopping for a SB die.


thanks for the info and tips so far!

[pacrat]

bigbossman;

Keeping this in mind;

OP, time for "Back to Basics" process of elimination.

In relation to your base/web to sizer issue, and FLIGHT762's issue with one SB die not resolving problem, but another SB die doing the trick. And your BR die "almost" resolving diameter conflict.

One of the most "Back to Basics" that any reloader does well to remember, is that ALL sizers are JUST HOLES. As are ALL rifle chambers, are JUST HOLES. And the simple fact is that

"NOT ALL HOLES ARE CREATED EQUAL"

[JagerDog]

FWIW Dykem > sharpie

[smoothy8500]

Sized cases should drop in and drop out with simple gravity. Generally if they stop a 1/4" of dropping into the chamber, I would suspect that a SB die may be needed and do the sharpie check on the case web.

[bigbossman]

"NOT ALL HOLES ARE CREATED EQUAL"

Words to live by, my friend

FWIW Dykem > sharpie

If all I have is a Sharpie, then Sharpie > Dykem. I'll go into town and get me some Dykem for next time, thanks!

Sized cases should drop in and drop out with simple gravity. Generally if they stop a 1/4" of dropping into the chamber, I would suspect that a SB die may be needed and do the sharpie check on the case web.

Yeah, they almost drop in/out in the Garand, but stop just short.... maybe 1/8 or 1/16 inch. I need to press a bit to get them to fully insert, and they do not fall out with gravity when the gun is upended. Sharpie test has already revealed the issue to be that the case is a bit too fat at the web.

[LynnJr]

Before you buy the small base die take a piece of 80 grit sandpaper and lay it on a flat surface.
Take your shell holder out if your press and cover the top of it with that sharpie.
Run the shell holder in a figure 8 pattern on the 80 grit sandpaper so all of the black sharpie is gone. Figure 15 passes maybe 20.
Put the shell holder back into the press and screw the die down even further.
If this cures the issue you can use the die as is with the now shorter shell holder or buy a small base die.

[bigbossman]

Before you buy the small base die take a piece of 80 grit sandpaper and lay it on a flat surface.
Take your shell holder out if your press and cover the top of it with that sharpie.
Run the shell holder in a figure 8 pattern on the 80 grit sandpaper so all of the black sharpie is gone. Figure 15 passes maybe 20.
Put the shell holder back into the press and screw the die down even further.
If this cures the issue you can use the dies is with the now shorter shell holder or buy a small base die.

I was having vague general thoughts about trying something like this..... thanks for the idea, I'll give it a try and report back!

[JagerDog]

You can get body only dies. That way you can size down further with the reduced height shell holders without moving the shoulder back so far you risk case head separation/short brass life.

[highpower790]

You can get body only dies. That way you can size down further with the reduced height shell holders without moving the shoulder back so far you risk case head separation/short brass life.

In a match prepped M1 such as the op has,long brass life shouldnt be a concern.

[DrewN]

Myself, I'd rather just deal with the tight chamber up front. It's a Garand, not a bench rest gun.

[bigbossman]

Turns out, I had a pile of Cabela's Bucks, and Cabela's had the RCBS .308 SB dies in stock, so.......

Great - now I have three sets of dies for one caliber. Forster BR Bonanza dies, Redding Competition dies, and now these. Reloading is sure saving me a ton of money.