Safe or Stupid?

[David Jackson]

Going through ammo to take inventory, I have 4 or 5 boxes of really old loaded .45 with lead bullets (boxes marked "Ball" but bullets are not round, look more like SWC) and they seem pretty dirty, from age I guess.
Is it safe or stupid to tumble these loaded rounds?

['ol shooter]

Ball refers to the type of powder used, spherical shaped granules, most often found in military ammunition and marked as such on the container.

[JackEllis]

Wipe them off.

It's unlikely tumbling could cause one of the primers to be struck hard enough to set it off and it if did, I doubt you'd end up with a chain reaction but IMHO not worth the risk.

[AandO]

Nah, it is perfectly fine to tumble live ammo. I can't count how many times this very question has been answered here on CG and elsewhere.

[Donny1]

They are unsafe, please send them to me ASAP for disposal.

[M1NM]

Lead SWC - wrong box - somebody else's unknown reloads - shoot at your own peril.

[David Jackson]

Hey Ol'Shooter, thanks for reminding me about the "ball" referring to the powder, not the projectile! I think I had heard that before but forgot. I guess the shape of the projectile could resemble SWC then.
AandO, please Pardon my ignorance in asking a question which has been asked and answered many times. I do appreciate the answers.
Hi Donny 1, if they are unsafe I would be most concerned about how you would dispose of them ... they could contribute to global warming if they aren't disposed off in exactly the right way. And, as indeed they are unsafe I should probably talk to the Environmental Protection Agency about getting a special "shipping unsafe stuff" license to send they to you for disposal! That could take months.
And, M1MN, if lead SWC appearing and wrong box you are correct about shooting at my own peril, though I think my .45s are pretty tough. I had one case rupture, cloud of smoke but no damage and bullet left the barrel just fine. However, when I do shoot them I will pay close attention for possible squibs etc. Thanks for reminding me to be careful of unknown loads.

[JagerDog]

Ball refers to the type of powder used, spherical shaped granules, most often found in military ammunition and marked as such on the container.

Ummm...the term "ball" was used before smokeless powder. It somewhat morphed over time.

Interesting article:

https://www.wideners.com/blog/what-is-ball-ammo/

My "modern" definition is that which conforms to the Geneva convention for military use. Generally a FMJ non-expanding projectile. What propels it or what distinct shape it is, is irrelevant. It could be propelled by cordite and be "ball" ammunition.

[slamfire1]

For really old ammunition, pull a bullet, dump the powder into something, and look for corrosion inside the case











Gunpowder deteriorates. As it breaks down, it outgasses NOx, a spectrum of molecules. One component of NOx is NO2, nitrogen dioxide. That red stuff in the air above Los Angles iis NO2. NO2 is highly oxidizing and in the presence of water molecules (called humidity) turns into nitric acid gas. That is a double whammy to powder and brass. Corrosion of brass reveals old, deteriorated, and dangerous gunpowder. Glumpy and sticky gunpowder is probably dangerous.

If the cases are clean inside, the powder smooth and silky, there is still some risk of shooting old ammunition, but I can't quantify that number. I do know that old gunpowder increases in pressure with age

I pulled this from a DTIC presentation








I would not tumble old ammunition. Gunpowder will mechanically break down and vibrating the stuff is not good. You don't want gun powder dust in the case. Dust has a huge surface area and will spike the pressure curve.

[noylj]

Ball ammo as always been military for bullet and NOT powder. Many folks who left the military still call bullets for small arms "balls"
Amazing how fast history is forgotten
Using Google you can find references such as:
Military Surplus Ammunition 45 ACP 230 Grain M1911 Ball Full Metal Jacket Sealed Can of 600 (12 boxes of 50) Evansville Ordnance (Chrysler) Production

['ol shooter]

That is very interesting information. I read a long article published in The Atlantic, chronicling the issues derived in the M-16 after the military opted to replace the stick type powder with a ball type powder in the ammunition, leading to the well known failures. Much confusion over the term "ball" I guess.
Here is the link for anyone interested:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/06/m-16-a-bureaucratic-horror-story/545153/

[the86d]

For really old ammunition, pull a bullet, dump the powder into something, and look for corrosion inside the case...

If the cases are clean inside, the powder smooth and silky, there is still some risk of shooting old ammunition, but I can't quantify that number. I do know that old gunpowder increases in pressure with age
...
I pulled this from a DTIC presentation
...
I would not tumble old ammunition. Gunpowder will mechanically break down and vibrating the stuff is not good. You don't want gun powder dust in the case. Dust has a huge surface area and will spike the pressure curve.

None of what you pictured was salt water, or moisture-related, just powder breaking down?

Bad lot, or another catalyst?

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

as an Air Force retired AMMO troop we always defined ball ammo as training rounds. Was even stamped on 20MM ammo being ball. Other variants of 20MM was armor piercing, incendiary, HE, HEI etc etc. Same on the 30MM as well. The rounds were color coded for identification. 5.56 and 7.62 were the same---you had tracers and ball. I think I still have some 5.56 cans that say ball ammo on them. "Ball" was used to identify the projectile and not the powder.

[David Jackson]

A most informative article from The Atlantic magazine, generally a left wing parrot outfit.
The Swamp seems to have won that one, to the detriment of American youth.

[David Jackson]

Dear Slamfire,
Your example of what old powder can do to cases is most illuminating. It seems that the basic composition of the powder itself has a lot to do with that. How can one determine that for modern powders, I have Unique and Bullseye.