Short .45 ACP cases

[David Jackson]

I have quite a few (some hundreds at least) .45 ACP cases that measure under the .888" minimum. I am told that these won't headspace on the case mouth but hang off the extractor. I am also told accuracy suffers then, wonder if the extractor is thus susceptible to breakage and what other problems might arise.
I'm going to run out of cases w/in spec and wonder what I should do with the short ones. Should I just throw them away?
Ideas? Suggestions?
BTW I measured these cases after running them through the decapping/sizing stage of my Dillon Square Deal. That did lengthen some of them a little.

[bigbossman]

Interesting question, and I look forward to seeing the answer(s).

I will say that with decades of shooting .45acp for fun and in competition, I have never ever measured an empty case. Not once. And a lot of my cases have been reloaded so many times the head stamps are getting very indistinct.

Why not load some up and see if they function properly and are still accurate? I doubt your extractor is in serious peril.

[divingin]

I can't recall any instance where short cases in a .45 have led to misfires.

Given the abuse the extractor sees in normal use, I doubt supporting a case against the impact of a firing pin would have much, if any, effect.

[gwanghoops]

shoot them in 45ACP revolvers?

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1234710&highlight=45hp

[SharedShots]

The 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, correct. Take one of your short cases loaded W/O powder and check it against your chamber. If it drops shallow then it's probably going to headspace on the extractor and you end up with accuracy issues like the 38 super has (if its a standard chamber and headspaces on the tiny rim.

The problem rears its head when the case chambers shallow and then upon firing stretches. That's when you get the case failure later on. When you mix your brass when tumbling and going through the reloading process you no longer know which are stretched from short. A case stretched from short during firing is susceptible for case rupture upon later reloadings and yes and it does happen.

If you're going to use shorter than spec cases in a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth them mark them so you know which ones they are for future reference. Later on if you have a case failure you'll at least know if it was due to short case fire stretching.

Nothing is ever a problem until it is. If you load near max then marking those case can become a saver later on because you can keep them for plinking loads.

[bruce381]

in my case with the fat .452 cast SWC I shoot the I'm more in the headspaces of the throat deal yeah load a few and try them.

[David Jackson]

Thanks for all the great answers!
I measure each and every case, that's how I got such a huge number of short ones.
What is the best way to mark the cases? Will magic marker stay on the base after firing?
Interesting that someone else mentions cast SWC bullets and how they space. My recipe book has an overall length which is too long with my cast SWC. I had to seat the bullets much lower to get reliable feeding etc. and came up with the idea that the cast bullet being too "proud" was the source of my troubles and so lowered them and no problems since.
I take each and every round I load and drop it into a .45 acp barrel to see if it goes in OK, and also that it will fall out with only the aid of gravity. If it won't just fall out then there is a problem.
Now, case length and number of firings, .45 acp cases seem to get shorter, not longer, or am I missing something?
I did have a case rupture once, near the base. I was concerned about a stuck projectile but it was not stuck; I was concerned about damage to the barrel and/or chamber but I could not find any and shot lots of rounds through that gun since the case rupture without problems. Is that where one might expect such a thing to happen?
I load in about the middle powder charge wise. I figure that is about the safest; bullet will go all the way out and no extreme pressures will be generated.

[smoothy8500]

Now, case length and number of firings, .45 acp cases seem to get shorter, not longer, or am I missing something?

That's my experience too. As for "too short", I haven't experienced any issues concerning accuracy or function with either of my 1911's. This is with 200 Lead SWC and 185 Jacketed HP.

I quit measuring and just load them.

[divingin]

Now, case length and number of firings, .45 acp cases seem to get shorter, not longer, or am I missing something?

I recall reading an article that was investigating trimming requirements for 45 ACP brass. The test was to run very hot loads on a single piece of brass and measure how many cycles it took to require trimming. Bottom line is that it never did. The guys running the test found that the repeated hammering of the case caused the case head to compact, and the OAL of the brass to shrink. They surmised that eventually the extractor groove would shrink to the point that it would cause problems, but they never got there.

[ojisan]

I have found short cases as well.
Never had a problem other than one batch was super short and I moved the crimp die down just a hair and re-crimped them after loading with my standard set up.
Probably wasn't necessary but it only took a few minutes.

Shared Shots is correct, the round headspaces on the case mouth.
For the most accurate ammo, longer cases would be better.
However the .45 seems to tolerate a wide range of chamber and headspace combinations with no issues.

[bigbossman]

I recall reading an article that was investigating trimming requirements for 45 ACP brass. .....Bottom line is that it never did. ......They surmised that eventually the extractor groove would shrink to the point that it would cause problems, but they never got there.

.....the .45 seems to tolerate a wide range of chamber and headspace combinations with no issues.

Pretty much. Measuring the case length on .45acp is a waste of time. Proper taper crimp and plunk test is all that is necessary.

[TomReloaded]

I don't even plunk test my 45acp rounds anymore, nevermind actually measuring brass!

You're not ever going to have a short brass problem in 45acp. If you can read the headstamp on short brass, it was short when it was factory ammo and fired safely then. They wouldn't sell short ammo if it exposed them to liability, but they sell millions of short rounds either way.

[bigbossman]

I don't even plunk test my 45acp rounds anymore, nevermind actually measuring brass!

When I was shooting matches and climbing the IPSC ladder, I would plunk test my match rounds the night before the match. I really don't do it anymore..... the dies have been dialed in and set on a dedicated press for years now. Plus, I still have about 3,000 bullets to use up before anything needs changing, and about 4,000 loaded rounds on the shelf. So, yeah - I hardly ever plunk test either. Just load and shoot. I have literally loaded 100k+ rounds since 1996 or so, and have never ever measured a case length. And I still have most of the original brass I started out with, it just doesn't wear out very fast if at all.

[David Jackson]

Thanks a bunch folks! You have just saved me a bunch of money (or would if I could find .45 brass to buy!) as I have a few hundred "short" cases I can now load with no worries!
Some have mentioned a "plunk" test; a new technical term for me; I can only guess it means "plunking" a completed cartridge in a .45 barrel to see if it goes in easily and will fall out with gravity. Am I close?
Also, as I am new at this (have maybe loaded 1,500 or so rounds only and all in .45): Overall Case Length; how important is it? I do remember that I started with cast SWC bullets and when they were seated so the OAL was what the recipe book said, there were problems. I wound up seating them pretty far into the case, then no problems. With jacketed and round nose, if they are a little too short I think no feeding problems though perhaps accuracy may suffer. The benefits of the collective wisdom on that would be appreciated.
And ... I am using a Dillon Square Deal press and find it hard to maintain real tenth consistency in powder charges; sometimes even a variation of a whole grain. I wind up loading in the middle of the recipe range to avoid over and under charging. Does anyone know if this issue can be fixed, and how much variation should I expect using one of these machines. Do the more expensive ones measure powder more accurately and dispense more consistently? I am using Unique at the moment; I wonder if the powder itself contributes to the problem. I also have some Bullseye I could try.

[ojisan]

"Some have mentioned a "plunk" test; a new technical term for me; I can only guess it means "plunking" a completed cartridge in a .45 barrel to see if it goes in easily and will fall out with gravity. Am I close?"
Correct!

As a rule of thumb, you want your overall length to be the maximum it can while still fitting the chamber, magazine and feeding reliably.
If you find that you have to seat the bullets deep then you are reducing the internal case volume and pressures may go up quickly, a lighter powder charge may be needed.
This is not so much an issue with 45 ACP as it is a lower pressure cartridge and again it tolerates quite a bit of variation.
Loading something like 40 S&W which is high pressure to start with means you have to be very careful to use only tested loads, bullets and lengths.

My Dillon 550 throws boringly consistent powder charges to within 1/10 of a grain, I use mostly Accurate powders which have a sand type consistency so they meter very well.
Usually the motion of the press while reloading provides enough jiggling to settle the next powder load, I have seen some posts here where people have asked about some kind of vibrator to help make the powder throws more consistent.
One key is to have consistent movements in the way you operate the press so the powder drops the same way every time.