Novice primer question

[F4E Phantom]

[highpower790]

All lrp are interchangeable,but there are differences,such as primer cup thickness.
Fed primers tend to be thinner resulting in slam fires using a semi-auto,which is why alot of shooters will use primers from cci.
My personal preference is WinLR,never have I had a problem in a bolt rifle or semi.

[Elgatodeacero]

Each brand of primer also has a different brisance, so a load that has been worked up with one brand and type of primer is not necessarily safe with the same load.

A new primer should be worked up with your powder and charge weight.

[Imageview]

[slamfire1]

Your rifle is a military rifle and was designed to ignite primers in -40 F weather. You should have no issues what so ever, with any primer, as long as you 1) replace the old mainspring, and 2) reload your ammunition to military pressures.

Let me recommend that you replace your 70 year old mainspring with the lightest Wolf main spring which is their 20 lb mainspring. Do not get a heavier mainspring. You may deform the nose of the cocking piece, such as happened to me. A new mainspring will positively ignite the primer under all temperature conditions, and a new mainspring will provide more positive ignition. I ran some irregular tests with a WW2 mainspring and a new Wolf spring, the groups were smaller with the new mainspring. And it was due to the better ignition power of the primer when ignited by the more powerful mainspring.

In terms of primers, let me recommend a load, which duplicates military velocities, and is low enough pressure that different standard primers, won't make a pressure difference.

a 150 grain bullet, 47.5 grs IMR 4895, military brass, any primer.

I shot thousands of this load, a 168 Match with 47.0 grs IMR4895, any case, any primer.





this load worked great, I used H4350. Back in the day a standard target load was a 168 SMK with 55.0 grains IMR 4350, my lot of H4350 always required one grain more to get the same velocity. I also just put in the later 175 SMK to see what would happen. This shot great.



If you study things, you will find that the actual military load was in the lower to middle 40 kpsia range with WW2 era powders. Powder technology improved, and while pressures dropped, the velocity was kept the same as the pre WW1 rounds. And it made no sense to change rear sights, which would have been expensive, which would have been necessary, by the additional velocity if they had bumped up the powder charge. And I am going to claim, any additional velocity would not have made the round more lethal.

I will also say, the best military rounds, pressures are in the lower 40,000 range, which gives margin in desert conditions and when the weapon and ammunition get hot.

There are differences in primers. I conducted my own primer test, and even though velocity does not correlate well with pressures, what is true, any increases in velocity are always accompanied by an increase in pressure. And what you see is that different brands gave difference velocities, all else being equal, which should mean they also gave different pressures.

Now the thing is, primers vary by lot. So the next lot of primers will give different velocities, and pressures, simply by lot variance from the same manufacturer. Primer cake is also a mixture of components, the percentages have a plus or minus, and the purity of the components change. Primer cake is mixed by hand, homogeneity will not be 100%, which means there is a lot of inherent variability to the process. So don't take it that one brand is always "hotter" than another. Today's numbers will be different from tomorrow's.

What is true, is that Federal primers are the most sensitive primers on the market, followed by Winchester brass finish. The CCI #34 are mil spec, which means they are less sensitive than the commercial primers.


30-06 Primer Test

 Colombian Mauser Match 26” 1:10 Wilson barrel.

174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps 
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  68 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2698      
Std Dev = 51      
ES = 117       
High = 2771      
Low = 2654       
N = 5      
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI #34[/B] OAL 3.30   
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2645      
Std Dev = 12      
ES = 42       
High = 2671      
Low = 2629       
N = 10      
Very good group       
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Tula 7.62 [/B]lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30  
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2665      
Std Dev = 9      
ES = 28       
High = 2677      
Low = 2649       
N = 10      
Excellent Group     
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Wolf NCLR[/B] lot 18-09 OAL 3.30  
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2656      
Std Dev = 15      
ES = 36       
High = 2677      
Low = 2641       
N = 9      
       
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Fed 210S [/B]OAL 3.30   
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2656      
Std Dev = 13      
ES = 34       
High = 2674      
Low = 2640       
N = 10      
       
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]WLR (Nickle)[/B]  OAL 3.30  
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2665      
Std Dev = 18      
ES = 60       
High = 2696      
Low = 2636       
N = 10      
Excellent group       
       
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI200  [/B]OAL 3.30   
       
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F     
       
Ave Vel = 2680      
Std Dev = 14      
ES = 56       
High = 2712      
Low = 2656       
N = 10      
V. Good group

M1 Garand BMR Receiver Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist

150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball       
         
14 Nov 2011 T= 74 ° F      
        
Ave Vel = 2545        
Std Dev = 20       
ES = 68       
Low = 2513       
High = 2581        
N=  8       
 
 
174 FMJBT White Box 1968 NM M72, Headstamp LC67 match, box velocity 2640 fps  
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2592       
Std Dev = 28       
ES = 103        
High = 2647       
Low = 2544        
N = 10       
        
        
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI #34 [/B]OAL 3.30    
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2632       
Std Dev = 20       
ES = 60        
High = 2671       
Low = 2611        
N = 10       
        
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Tula 7.62[/B] lot 1-10 primers OAL 3.30  
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2582       
Std Dev = 15       
ES = 49        
High = 2602       
Low = 2553        
N = 10       
 excellent group      
        
        
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]Wolf NCLR [/B]lot 18-09 OAL 3.30   
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2607       
Std Dev = 17       
ES = 57        
High = 2642       
Low = 2585        
N = 10       
        
        
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]WLR (Nickle) [/B] OAL 3.30   
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2650       
Std Dev = 19       
ES = 68        
High = 2688       
Low = 2620        
N = 10       
Very good group       
        
        
174 FMJBT 47.0 IMR 4895  Lot L7889 thrown LC62NM [B]CCI200 [/B] OAL 3.30    
        
14 Nov 2011 T =  74 °F      
        
Ave Vel = 2599       
Std Dev = 22       
ES = 75        
High = 2637       
Low = 2562        
N = 10       
Very good group

[Cowboy T]

Each brand of primer also has a different brisance, so a load that has been worked up with one brand and type of primer is not necessarily safe with the same load.

A new primer should be worked up with your powder and charge weight.

This is why the standard--and good--advice of starting low and working up your load--while checking for pressure signs--is given. Primers are variable. Powder lots of the same powder can be a bit variable, though generally canister (retail-grade) powders consist of different lots mixed together to get within a "spec". Your specific rifle is itself a variable. I myself very often use different primer brands from what the book uses.

Fortunately, there isn't a lot of over-thinking that needs to happen as a result of this. As long as you work up your load for your rifle, checking along the way, and you don't go beyond the max listed loads, then whatever load your rifle shows that it "likes best" is what you should use. You'll be fine.

[Bastard]

This is why the standard--and good--advice of starting low and working up your load--while checking for pressure signs--is given. Primers are variable. Powder lots of the same powder can be a bit variable, though generally canister (retail-grade) powders consist of different lots mixed together to get within a "spec". Your specific rifle is itself a variable. I myself very often use different primer brands from what the book uses.

Fortunately, there isn't a lot of over-thinking that needs to happen as a result of this. As long as you work up your load for your rifle, checking along the way, and you don't go beyond the max listed loads, then whatever load your rifle shows that it "likes best" is what you should use. You'll be fine.

random though - but with all these new reloaders on here looking for advice, the one piece that keeps coming is "checking for pressure signs" someone who isn't me might take it upon themselves to explain what this is... have pictures of flattened primers or split cases might help too - I mean I guess we could just post a link like this one but that would be too easy.

http://www.massreloading.com/reading_pressure_signs.html

[bhilliker@comcast.net]

My 1903 manufactured in 1918---I use the IMR 4895, SMK 168 gr HPBT but only load with 44 grains. I'm just punching paper and it's over 100 years old

[Cowboy T]

random though - but with all these new reloaders on here looking for advice, the one piece that keeps coming is "checking for pressure signs" someone who isn't me might take it upon themselves to explain what this is... have pictures of flattened primers or split cases might help too - I mean I guess we could just post a link like this one but that would be too easy.


http://www.massreloading.com/reading...ure_signs.html

Indeed. That's why we also tend to strongly recommend getting and studying at least two reloading manuals. Lyman's, for example, shows pictures of flattened primers similar to the (excellent, BTW) link that you provided. It also shows pictures of plenty of other things to look out for. Other reloading manuals do likewise (e. g. Hornady's, Lee's, Speer's).