.38 Special vs .38 Special +P

[BC1791]

Looking for some help when it comes to .38 Special ammo. I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I wasn't 100% sure where else it would fit in.

I'm trying to buy some ammo for my father, but want to make sure I get the right kind for him. He has an older .38 from roughly 1975 I want to say. I don't know the specifics on it, but he's had a hard time finding ammo for it.

He has told me numerous times he doesn't want +P because of how old his gun is and he figures it would likely cause some sort of issue with his gun if fired in it.

That's why I'm here and hoping for some help on what I should be looking at for his .38. I have found everything from 130 grain, 158 grain, and then 148 grain +P.

Should he be worried about +P in his older gun? Or is he being paranoid about it? Also if he should, am I better off buying 130 grain over the 158? Or would either of those be okay?

Thanks for any help with this.

[alland]

That is more dependent upon what revolver he has and not necessarily how old it is. If he is just looking for range ammo, the safe thing is just to buy standard pressure ammo.

[alland]

A revolver from 1975 is not old. Many revolvers from the 1930s and 1940s are capable of handling +P ammo.

[BC1791]

A revolver from 1975 is not old. Many revolvers from the 1930s and 1940s are capable of handling +P ammo.

Good to know. Thanks for the help. I'll go ahead and grab some of the standard 158 range ammo for him and let him have some fun.

[FLIGHT762]

In 1974, SAAMI made the industry designation for +P ammunition in the .38 Special. A 125 JHP bullet @ 850 FPS(17,000 PSI) was standard and the same bullet @ 945 FPS is +P (20,000 PSI).

Interesting thing when I refer to my 1971 Speer manual for .38 Special loads, Well before the SAAMI designation, Many of the 125 JHP loads starting loads exceed +P velocity and some go up to 1200 FPS.

Speer used a S&W K 38 6" for their testing.

My pre 1974 Sierra manual also has .38 Special load data that goes well above the +P levels.

[Sandspider500]

Most of the 38 special +p ammo of today was standard pressure stuff long ago. Although buffalo bore stuff is a legit overload.

[Imageview]

158 lead round nose would be my pick, especially if it's a shorter barrel. If your dad feels more confident with standard ammo, he'll be more effective with it if he ever needs it than he would be with +p he doesn't trust. And a solid chunk of lead doesn't have the same concerns with velocity that a hollow point might.

[pennstater]

Certainly hope you can even find it. Pretty tough out there right now.

MLC

[slamfire1]

In 1974, SAAMI made the industry designation for +P ammunition in the .38 Special. A 125 JHP bullet @ 850 FPS(17,000 PSI) was standard and the same bullet @ 945 FPS is +P (20,000 PSI).

Correct. Older pistols were not made for +P and it is better not to shoot +P. Even modern pistols not made for +P are better used with standard ammunition. I remember talking to the Interarms gunsmith repairing Rossi 38 snubbie revolvers. A modern revolver not made for +P. He had seen a lot of blown cylinders with "+P" ammunition.

Even if it does not blow a cylinder it will beat up the ratchet and hand.

And what increase in lethality do your really get with +P? Of course we all believe more means more, therefore, how much more lethality?

And I don't believe that kinetic energy means lethality. A bigger through hole means more lethality to me.

This is interesting, try to find a trend, the data is all over the place

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

Old reloading manuals are nuts. They don't have pressure tested data. And, and this is a big and, what pressure tested data there was, was CUP.

Firearms were designed assuming the maximum pressure of the cartridge was CUP. Turns out, copper crushers underestimated the actual pressure. So, you use old data, based on CUP, you are overloading your gun, especially your older gun.

And, what do you really get loading your 38 Special to +P? You think that turns your pistol into a dino hunting gun?



think again.

[jwb28]

for targets round nose is fine. But the 158gr round nose load was known as the widow maker back in the day.
I would get a 158gr swc if it were me. Targets won't care but it will be a better choice for self defense. Or if you can find a non +p 158gr swchp even better. (semi wad cutter hollow point). At least in a 4 or 6" barrel. Two inch barrels lose to much velocity for a hollow point to expand.

[edgerly779]

Is it a .38 spl or .38 s&w

[ysr_racer]

Op, where do you live? I'll fix you up.

I've got more .38 Special than I know what to do with.

[BC1791]

In 1974, SAAMI made the industry designation for +P ammunition in the .38 Special. A 125 JHP bullet @ 850 FPS(17,000 PSI) was standard and the same bullet @ 945 FPS is +P (20,000 PSI).

Interesting thing when I refer to my 1971 Speer manual for .38 Special loads, Well before the SAAMI designation, Many of the 125 JHP loads starting loads exceed +P velocity and some go up to 1200 FPS.

Speer used a S&W K 38 6" for their testing.

My pre 1974 Sierra manual also has .38 Special load data that goes well above the +P levels.

Very interesting. I'll be sure to relay this information to him. That's definitely a big help and valuable info.

Most of the 38 special +p ammo of today was standard pressure stuff long ago. Although buffalo bore stuff is a legit overload.

I thought I read that when I was researching, but I admittedly don't know much about .38 and was confused so figured best to ask.

158 lead round nose would be my pick, especially if it's a shorter barrel. If your dad feels more confident with standard ammo, he'll be more effective with it if he ever needs it than he would be with +p he doesn't trust. And a solid chunk of lead doesn't have the same concerns with velocity that a hollow point might.

I know he has some wad cutters, but he was looking for some basic ball to shoot. I went with exactly the 158 lead round.

Certainly hope you can even find it. Pretty tough out there right now.

MLC

Was able to find some. Wasn't exactly cheap, but certainly wasn't the $1+ I had been seeing for awhile.

Is it a .38 spl or .38 s&w

It's a .38 spl.

Op, where do you live? I'll fix you up.

I've got more .38 Special than I know what to do with.

I'm in the Central Valley, but my father lives in PA. Appreciate the help though!

[Donny1]

Standard SWC all the way, good for self defense and makes nice clean holes in paper.

I have a stainless Charter Arms Off Duty made in 1986. I contacted them and asked if +P was ok. They said occasional use would not hurt it but is not recommended.

[alland]

I would stay with a 158 grain standard pressure load. If your revolver has fixed sights the 158 gr will usually hit closer to the point of aim than lighter bullets. At least that has been my experience.